Having A Problem With Winchester Model 12 Shotgun 16 Gage

[albayo]

I am cleaning up a Winchester Model 12 in 16 Gage and it was in rough shape hadn't been cleaned probably since 1915.
The problem is I can't get the tube fed system to hold the shells, (cartridge cut off). If I load my dummy 16 gage shells they won't stay in the tube they just come ought the metal piece ( Cartridge cut off) that is made to retain them just isn't out far enough to hold them in.
Could the retaining piece be for a 12 gage or is there a shim that goes in behind to hold the retainer to push it out far enough to hold the shells in the tube. It also needs a new (replacement) butt stock and a screw to hold the trigger group in place. The gentleman who owns it, received it from a close friend who has since passed and he wanted it fixed up.
Thanks
Al

 

[Ol' Flinter]

Google an exploded parts diagram to see what you might need.

 

[Grouse Man]

Could be dirt jammed behind the cartridge stop, could be bent, could be worn. Has the gun been disassembled and cleaned? How much wear is on the action overall?

 

[struff55]

this is what you need to do the cartridge cut off will be stamped 16 ha on the back make sure it says that and not 20 ga a 12 ga will not fit in the cut away slot
back to the 16 ga one take the curved tip part of it and put it in a vice and bend the tip in the direction of the curve ever so gently!!! then assemble it and try it do this till it stops the dhell

 

[Lodi]

Just an FYI, early Model 12's in 16ga are chambered for 2 9/16" shells. Feeding, overall, may have issues. Winchester standardized to 2¾" in 1927, the shorter chambered guns can be converted. This does not sound like the issue you currently have but may affect feeding after leaving the magazine tube.

 

[Blockcaver]

On M12’s and M42s the rim of the case that is in the magazine tube indexes against the shell lifter cutout….protruding about 3/8” out of the tube This how they are designed to work. I know…it’s different than other semi autos and pumps but functions fine.

I am not 100% sure that yours is working properly or not but when you load the magazine tube, only insert the cartridge far enough to clear the end of the shell lifter plate.

 

[madtrapper143]

Blockcaver is right on. When loading the magazine, cartridges jump back over the carrier slightly. It will mess you up if you are used to a Remington 870 and have never handled a model 12.
Darryl

 

[reddog]

I'm thinking a good cleaning as well my 28 g was so gummed up it would not let the shells be fed into the mag cleaned up voila all good.

 

[dilly]

There is no cartridge cutoff like on other pumps. The base of the shell in the mag rests against a cutout on the carrier.

 

[Lodi]

There is no cartridge cutoff like on other pumps.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on there dilly, you've got that backwards! Other pumps don't have a cartridge cutoff like a WINCHESTER MODEL 12.

 

[albayo]

Well my ignorance of the Winchester Model 12s is now proved.
I did like you gentlemen suggested and I found out I was thinking it worked like the Remington and Mossberg shotguns I have worked on in the past.
It works now, just needs a replacement stock and the screw that holds the trigger mechanism in place.
Thank you gentlemen for all your help.
Al

 

[Blockcaver]

You are welcome. Appreciate you coming on and telling us what you found! Enjoy the Model 12!