CWD - How do you handle a positive animal

jjohnwm said:
Potashminer, does your area not normally have both bow and blackpowder seasons open in October?

I'm curious; were those helicopter snipers shooting only mulies, or was the goal (as I had heard elsewhere) to eliminate all deer of either species in the area? Was there a regular whitetail rifle season there that year? Did you hunt it? If so, did you test your kill, and how long did that take? Did you notice a significant difference in deer sightings during the season?

I like being able to discuss this here, in relative anonymity. If we were to meet in person, I would be too frightened to freely converse with you...an apparent dissident, and so therefore a likely person "of interest" to our lizard overlords. :)
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I no longer hunt with either bow or black powder, so I do not know what seasons were open around here.

Helicopters were shooting ALL cervids - white tail, mule deer, moose, elk - or so we were told. Idea was claimed to reduce herd to limit spread of CWD, yet not a thing we are aware of done about the prions in dirt or plants around here - sort of pointless - somebody in Winnipeg had a budget of taxpayer money - so spend it on "stuff" that occurs way out in boonies and claim whatever, afterwards. There had been a first ever mule deer season, and three white tail deer season here in "normal" hunting times - the "cull" occurred in January, mostly - long after the hunting season was done with. I have not been out to hunt deer for several years - by any means - but I see them in our yard or on the way into town, most every trip. Not near as many as there was a few years ago - and, as posted - not sure that I have seen a mule deer, since that cull.

An acquaintance has half section in Manitoba about 5 miles from here - he does not hunt - lives in Saskatchewan - was given two deer carcasses by Manitoba DNR in return to giving permission for them to "cull" over his land. West side of his land holding is the Manitoba/Saskatchewan border - I saw an elk cross in front of me when I was out there, on his land, earlier this year.

We live on the West bank of Lake of the Prairies - you can look on-line for what zone we are in - what seasons are open and when.

I was hunting Saskatchewan zone 46 for years before and after CWD came to Canada - first reported / noticed in that zone - around a game farm near Neilburg, Sask. I've had many dozen head tested over the years - never had one come back as positive analysis. That I know of, neither did my Dad, who lived in Unity, Sask - for many decades.

It will be like heresy to say so, but I believe the prion is moved around by transport trucks hauling live animals from game farm to game farm. Is mostly based, that until two years ago, Manitoba never reported a case. Ontario had not either - maybe still has not - yet endemic in Saskatchewan, Alberta and Quebec. I simply do not believe that a prion infected animal walked across Manitoba and Ontario to Quebec to start an outbreak there - more likely was a truck that trailered the living animals there - no adequate quarantines or testing by relevant authorities or operators (of trucks or farms). I understand that an animal can be spreading CWD prions for months, or possibly years, before displaying symptoms, themselves.
 
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https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6974555
Alice the moose went for a stroll.


Look how easily Phragmites (elephant grass or whatever else you want to call it) spreads it’s up in place like pickle lake and red lake. Trucks and people bring everything everywhere.

Good luck with the bleach, probably the same luck as masks
 
MiG25 said:
Yeah, a 2.5% (40% of household) bleach solution is enough to destroy the prions in 5 minutes but one of the most acidic digestive systems on Earth won't. Make perfect sense... you guys don't seem to understand the basic function of the Human digestive system. And what it does to proteins.

Just like a ban on blood donations from England and injecting the prion into mouse brains "proves" that humans can get it by eating beef or venison. Scrapie has been known for centuries but we are supposed to be afraid of CWD.
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How did relying on the most acidic digestive system work out for those cannibals from catching kuru?
 
m1008 said:
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6974555
Alice the moose went for a stroll.


Look how easily Phragmites (elephant grass or whatever else you want to call it) spreads it’s up in place like pickle lake and red lake. Trucks and people bring everything everywhere.

Good luck with the bleach, probably the same luck as masks
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So what's the conspiracy in your opinion, the bleach or CWD?
 
reddog said:
After watching "No Accident" CWD definitely is a concern.The disease can lie dormant in the ground for years before being picked up.IMHO I would want nothing to do with it. No it has not made the jump to humans yet, something that is not out of the realm .
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dont worry gates is working on it
 
DBeato said:
How did relying on the most acidic digestive system work out for those cannibals from catching kuru?
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You sure Kuru was contracted from the act of Cannibalism? The guy that was awarded the Nobel Prize for his work with it said it was spread via conjunctival, nasal and skin contact with infected brain tissue. And that the Kuru Virus (yes, calls it a virus) was found in the brain and in small amounts in the liver and spleen.

It's also noteworthy that in infecting animals with Kuru, it was via injection not by contaminating feed.
 
How to handle a CWD positive animal? Obviously you will handle and butcher the animal before you likely know the results of the CWD test. Me personally, I start eating the animal before I know the results, which take about 6 weeks to get back. As far as what gear came in contact with the animal, simply deboning the meat would pose little risk as the main reservoir of the disease is brain, spinal and mucous membrane tissues. Last thing you should do is sever the spine if needed. Severing the spine exposes spinal fluid which could have high concentrations of the disease.

Speaking from Saskatchewan here but approximately 1 in 6 animals tested will test poitive for CWD. Most cases are concentrated in certain areas of the province and within certain pockets of populations of mostly mule deer in the south west quadrant of Saskatchewan.

CWD is not ditributed evenly among populations of deer and elk. It clusters in the affected herds. As the animals patterns change, the disease moves with the host. Remember, herd species like elk can move from wintering areas to calving areas that are many many miles away. Perhaps tens of miles or more away. Elk have a very large home range when compared to deer, especially whitetail deer, which may live their entire life within a quarter section. Mule deer are obviously a herd animal as well and will travel many miles to find food during winters. As spring appoaches each animal will break from the herd and find it's own home range or territory.

CWD is usually spread over great distances to new geographic areas as hunters travel from areas where wildlife is to where it isn't. In other words hunters are travelling hundreds of miles from where they were drawn or hunt to their butcher or home base where the animal is processed and discarded or disposed of. When a CWD positive animal is harvested and transported to a new locale by the hunter, the chance exists that it could create new infectivity.

We still don't know for sure how predation factors into CWD and it's spread and uptake through the food chain and surrounding environment. For example, if scavengers such as coyotes, crows, raven, vultures, eagles etc. eat a CWD infected carcass, can those prions then move in or on one of those scavengers and be deposited somewhere else, as scat for example, and also remain viable once ingested by a cervid in a new area?

As far as captive wildlife harbouring CWD...this is the number one myth surrounding CWD. Captive herds are the cleanest of all herds excluding virgin areas of habitat never exposed to CWD. Many game farms are certified CWD free and this is very costly. Game farms must tag each animal they have and account for it's birth and death on a record. The animals must be tested if they are found dead in the ranch. They also must be certified disease free from all diseases before even being moved around. And also, government inspectors will touch base with ranch operators to inspect the facilities and approve the ranch before it's setup and also once it gets running.

Game farms are the most unlikely place that CWD will be found and if it was, it was likely a cross-contamination case from a wild exposure. Game farms are considerably less likely to have disease than your average cattle operation. They are a significant investment in time and money and resources and if you think an operator wants to see a positive case, you're very mistaken. Producers do everything they possibly can to prevent disease in their animals. If you think you know different about game farms, you don't know jackall.

And if I was running the resource department, and it was up to me, I'd be making massive high fenced hunt ranches a priority now so we can protect what viable habitat and clean genetic diversity we have left in our cervids from being exposed to CWD and who knows what other diseases will come our way. Rather than culling animals from the air I would be quarantining them within fences to protect them from known populations of free range positive CWD cervids.
 
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Carnivores and scavengers have very low pH stomachs that the protein prion won't survive. Herbivores have a neutral to lightly acidic stomach(s) that the prion could pass through. Tangentially, those who claim people are naturally vegetarian have obviously not looked at the cluster of species that have similar stomach chemistry to Humans.

The notion that a guy could catch CWD from eating venison is nonsensical.
 
umchorn2 said:
...And if I was running the resource department, and it was up to me, I'd be making massive high fenced hunt ranches a priority now...
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Ah, yes...there it is again...

Quite invigorating to get another splash of your classic "My land...my animals...write me a check!" philosophy; haven't seen it for, what, a couple years now?
 
I say it's a free country

Eat all you want............ CWD or MAD cow
Don't wear a mask
Don't get the shot
"I believe " and know

pretty straight forward
 
MiG25 said:
You sure Kuru was contracted from the act of Cannibalism? The guy that was awarded the Nobel Prize for his work with it said it was spread via conjunctival, nasal and skin contact with infected brain tissue. And that the Kuru Virus (yes, calls it a virus) was found in the brain and in small amounts in the liver and spleen.

It's also noteworthy that in infecting animals with Kuru, it was via injection not by contaminating feed.
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Kuru is not a virus.
 
Just an idea
Confidence ???
Why don't you set up an address to receive all CWD and MAD cow disease infected meat to be sent to you
Free meat for the family and friends
 
MiG25 said:
Tell that to the guy that was awarded the Nobel Prize.
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Kuru is not a virus.

Sorry bud, the science is pretty clear on this one, you stop eating brains and you stop getting sick.

Your Nobel prize guy described it as an "unconventional virus" way back same time he was molesting boys on his scientific excursions. He might have caught on sooner if he kept to the science.
 
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DBeato said:
Kuru is not a virus.

Sorry bud, the science is pretty clear on this one, you stop eating brains and you stop getting sick.

Your Nobel prize guy described it as an "unconventional virus" way back same time he was molesting boys on his scientific excursions. He might have caught on sooner if he kept to the science.
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You're saying the guy was wrong that it was contracted via the eyes and nose from infected brain tissue and that eating it is required?
 
jjohnwm,

You must work for Manitoba Resources Department, Yes? Or are some kind of biologist or government employee?
Fencing off some of the uncontaminated habitat would at least be a viable option to providing disease free zones as long as the disease was not present in those areas and species to begin with. And in the long term it would be far cheaper than dealing with the consequences of 20% or more of your entire cervid population carring CWD. I'd start with parts of National parks, Provincial parks and wildlife management zones.

And at least I'm proposing a viable start to solving the problem. What is your solution? Hunting zone closures? Keep testing animals and doing helicopter culls? Probably two of the biggest wastes of money. Besides, hunters should pay to have their own animals tested. Why should it be mandatory? And why should the taxpayer cover the cost? The government should have a right to have the data from testing including what species and land location it was from so they can make wildlife management decisions and follow trends but that's as much involvement I want them to have. If government wants, they can fund universities to study possible vaccines or genetic solutions that make animals resistant to the disease.

Manitoba is in a good position to get this under control before it becomes as big a problem as Alberta or Saskatchewan. But Manitoba's wildlife department is old school. They like old ideas. They lack the willpower and know-how to put in place effective policy and make real changes that can make a noticable effect on the outcome of wildlife and it's habitat.

For example, Manitoba governement will stock lakes with millions of fish fry but won't allow hunters to lease land from farmers and landholders as a hunting lease. But landowners can clearcut an entire forest or rent their land to be hayed or planted with crops. What's the harm in making a bit of income renting the land to a hunter for a season? It's a Win-Win for the landowner and the hunter. The hunter doesn't have to spend tens of thousand or hundreds of thousands of dollars buying the land, and the landowner can make a bit of income off the parts of the property that are not ideally suited for agriculture. At least that way the habitat has to be kept for wildlife instead of cut down, burned and plowed under. And if you think you're getting exclusive permission to hunt some farmers entire third or fourth generation farm by door knocking dream on. At least you might stand a chance of getting decent hunting with a modest hunting lease. I mean, tell me at least I have a valid point here.
 
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DBeato said:
What I'm saying is it's not a virus
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I don't think it's material if it is a virus, unconventional virus or protein prion the human stomach is going to destroy it.

It is material that in order to infect "humanized" mice with CWD they inject it into their brains and even then the effects are variable. Same with Kuru and Chimps, Ferrets, etc they injected them with it, why not contaminate their food? Right, because that isn't how it spreads.

Trust the Science...
 
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