help with lever action caliber

30-30 will drop everything. Our family has used them for 50 years.
This new nonsense about them being underpowered is by people who don't use them.
Quit making crap up.
Over a 150 animals have been taken in my family with 30-30.
Its a short range 200yd gun though. You have to work for your meat.
30-30 ammo is also half the cost and everywhere to buy
30-30 is also a 1/3 of the felt recoil. It affects accuracy greatly.
150gr for deer sized animals
170 or 190gr for bigger animals
 
The 45-70 is not for the light hearted shooter. The only way it's not bad to shoot is with an older single shot - that usually has a long barrel and weight 12 lbs. The 30-30 has seen production of over 7 million copies in the Winchester 94. I think that he Marlin 336 has produced almost as many.
 
If you want a rifle that you will actually use , then go with the 30-30 as the 45-70 has fairly heavy recoil , and ammo is expensive . If you want a rifle as a conversation piece , then go with the 45-70 as they were featured in Jurassic Park , and Wind River , which has driven their popularity . The BEST option may be too get a used 308 in a Savage 99 lever , and have an all around do every thing rifle .
 
Lol, quite the spread of thinking on this topic.

My take: if you are newbie enough to ask the question, you likely should go with the .30-30. Cheaper, a bit easier on the shoulder, maybe more available, maybe you will enjoy it. You're not marrying it; if you feel differently, you can easily sell it and get something else. I have only one .30-30 now, a rolling block single shot, and I keep it because I like the rifle, not the cartridge. I can't imagine buying another.

The .45-70 is a huge favourite of mine; I cannot think of an occasion or a purpose that would have me select a .30-30 over the .45-70. It can kick more...and do more...if you load it up hot, and can be a total pussycat with lighter loads. And, unlike many other cartridges, you can actually buy factory versions of both heavy and light loads right off the shelf, although of course none of the factory offerings are cheap.

I have narrowed down my collection to only three .45-70's, two levers and a single, and will likely buy more in future; I am married to them. :)
 
I have shot the new ruger marlins in 45-70, and bought and worked up a load for my brothers. He did take a mule deer with it late last season, and loves it. Its been too many years since I have shot any 3030's.


I personally settled in on a single shot 444 marlin in the CVA scout 2. Still prefer that over the 45-70. Just finishing a 325 gr cast load for it.

The 45-70 has flair, and kicks like a mule. You can down load for them as well, or just shoot tame factory ammo, just be prepared to spend upwards of $80.00 for 20 rounds as a start. The 3030 will be cheaper to feed by far.

Me, I don't think I will own a 45-70 and having fun with the 444. Might even go with the 450 Bushmaster, just because of the more available bullet choices over the 45-70.
 
I ve shot the 45/70 all my hunting career and love it.If you have a light rifle ya it kicks but there is a big difference shooting a gun at the range on a bench than hunting with it as with hunting while shooting at game your only going to shoot one or two times at best plus you ll be shooting offhand more than likely.In a standard weight 45/70 that shouldn’t t bother anyone unless they are really recoil sensitive
 
The problem is not the shooting of one or two shots at an animal. The problem begins when zero'ing the thing and practicing with it so you can actually have a chance of hitting something. Practice means a bunch of rounds which are both expensive and punishing.

The answer for someone asking such a question on a forum is pretty obvious. The 45-70 is not a good choice if you have to ask.
 
chasseur said:
I ve shot the 45/70 all my hunting career and love it.If you have a light rifle ya it kicks but there is a big difference shooting a gun at the range on a bench than hunting with it as with hunting while shooting at game your only going to shoot one or two times at best plus you ll be shooting offhand more than likely.In a standard weight 45/70 that shouldn’t t bother anyone unless they are really recoil sensitive
Click to expand...

Absolutely! I've never been kicked by a mule, but I'm pretty sure it's worse than shooting a .45-70...and I suspect that many people who compare the two have never experienced either.

The .45-70 is, I believe, the only cartridge that many reloading manuals have three separate listings for, depending upon the rifle strength and the shooter's tastes and uses. I've reloaded it with bullets as light as 250gr and as heavy as 500gr, and bullets can be had that exceed those limits at both the high and low ends. These are rifle bullets well suited to hunting.

The single .444 I once owned was pretty much a .44 magnum magnum; I don't recall if there were bullets designed for that cartridge or if they were are all handgun projectiles. They sure didn't range up as high in weight as the .45 slugs but maybe that's changed now. I doubt that there are as wide a range of projectile weights even today, but maybe someone could expand on that?

Is the Bushmaster using .450-diameter (i.e. handgun) bullets, or are they "proper" .458-diameter rifle slugs? If the former, then again, the range of bullet weights won't be as wide, and I really tend to doubt that the selection will be either. Again, somebody with experience with the cartridge (I have none) might clarify here. And in any case...does anybody even make a levergun in .450Bushmaster?

So if you are a complete beginner who intends to do no reloading, and have no preconceptions about what you prefer, the .30-30 is cheaper and likely easier to find on shelves. But if you are an experienced shooter who is perhaps curious about two cartridges that you haven't tried yourself, or if you just like bigger bores punching bigger holes, or you value the versatility of such a wide range of bullet weights and velocities, or you think you may want the big bruiser loads for some dream hunt someday...the .45-70 has it in spades over the .30-30.
 
Last edited:
The proper .45-70 experience would involve black powder under cast bullets (and cleaning up afterwards!) and may be more than you want to chew off new.

For a lever gun that "just works" .30-30 would be what does that.

Pistol caliber lever guns are a lot of fun too, but may not be enough gun for hunting.
 
jjohnwm said:
Absolutely! I've never been kicked by a mule, but I'm pretty sure it's worse than shooting a .45-70...and I suspect that many people who compare the two have never experienced either.

The .45-70 is, I believe, the only cartridge that many reloading manuals have three separate listings for, depending upon the rifle strength and the shooter's tastes and uses. I've reloaded it with bullets as light as 250gr and as heavy as 500gr, and bullets can be had that exceed those limits at both the high and low ends. These are rifle bullets well suited to hunting.

The single .444 I once owned was pretty much a .44 magnum magnum; I don't recall if there were bullets designed for that cartridge or if they were are all handgun projectiles. They sure didn't range up as high in weight as the .45 slugs but maybe that's changed now. I doubt that there are as wide a range of projectile weights even today, but maybe someone could expand on that?

Is the Bushmaster using .450-diameter (i.e. handgun) bullets, or are they "proper" .458-diameter rifle slugs? If the former, then again, the range of bullet weights won't be as wide, and I really tend to doubt that the selection will be either. Again, somebody with experience with the cartridge (I have none) might clarify here. And in any case...does anybody even make a levergun in .450Bushmaster?

So if you are a complete beginner who intends to do no reloading, and have no preconceptions about what you prefer, the .30-30 is cheaper and likely easier to find on shelves. But if you are an experienced shooter who is perhaps curious about two cartridges that you haven't tried yourself, or if you just like bigger bores punching bigger holes, or you value the versatility of such a wide range of bullet weights and velocities, or you think you may want the big bruiser loads for some dream hunt someday...the .45-70 has it in spades over the .30-30.
Click to expand...

Sort of coming at it differently, but I was looking for some cast bullets - at the time I had bought a 458 Win Mag rifle - both can use .457" / .458" bullets. However, turns out the 458 Win Mag has much different shape "throat" - more like a forcing cone in a shotgun - hence the bullets were made different nose shape - at the time, Jet Bullets had the two different styles to buy - I think many them had similar or overlapping weight.
 
jjohnwm said:
Absolutely! I've never been kicked by a mule, but I'm pretty sure it's worse than shooting a .45-70...and I suspect that many people who compare the two have never experienced either..
Click to expand...

While I've never been kicked by a mule, I have been kicked by a 50-110 with a ridiculously light trigger. It only took two rounds of that before I was done with it. Never again. I can imagine that being kicked by a mule isn't all that different from a really nasty recoiling rifle.

I also spent an afternoon with a lightweight 338 WM, that kicked me literally black and blue. Nay shoulder and cheek were bruised blue afterwards. That was no fun whatsoever.
 
In the past I had a Shiloh Sharps in 45/120,now with full loads and having a crescent butt plate and shooting from a bench that gun would kick but to be fair that’s not what they were designed for.I think the worst 45/70 I ever shot recoil wise was a Ruger #3 .That gun was too light for the cartridge even one chambered for 44mag would give you a wrap on the fingers with the lever .
 
Last edited:
I Dont Care About You said:
While I've never been kicked by a mule, I have been kicked by a 50-110 with a ridiculously light trigger. It only took two rounds of that before I was done with it. Never again. I can imagine that being kicked by a mule isn't all that different from a really nasty recoiling rifle.

I also spent an afternoon with a lightweight 338 WM, that kicked me literally black and blue. Nay shoulder and cheek were bruised blue afterwards. That was no fun whatsoever.
Click to expand...

My experience with "kicked black and blue" was circa 12 or 13 years old - I think the shotgun was branded "Silver King" or similar - 12 gauge, single shot - metal butt plate on butt stock too long for me. I would mostly mount, fire and take recoil on my upper arm. Of course, Dad bought 3" magnum shells - ducks / geese coming in - I just kept firing - left that arm "numb" and bruised like never since. My "worst" experience at getting crap kicked out of me by any gun.

Over many years, I fired my 338 Win Mag in Winchester Model 70 many hundreds times - 210 grain, 225 grain and 250 grain - usually loaded to the "nuts", in those days. I mostly take the 9.3x62 now - 250 grain and 286 grain - both bullets loaded perhaps 150 fps more than original was. Is a 458 Win Mag here that does not see much firing - none are even close to that single shot 12 gauge - for pain and bruising!!
 
Last edited:
No doubt about it, there are guns that are uncomfortable to shoot; any combination of light weight, poor fit and big cartridges has that potential. Of the examples mentioned above, the Ruger #3 is my personal nemesis. It is simply not comfortable for me to shoot...but it is a pure hunting rifle, and I don't need to shoot many hundreds of rounds of full-power hunting ammo in it to prepare for the hunt. Again, that's one of the huge joys of .45-70, i.e. the ability to work up a blockbuster hunting load for the biggest game...and a milder deer load...and an even milder plinking load...all for the same gun. I still own more than a couple of hard kickers...and still shoot them all...but in each case, I probably fire a hundred or more light loads for each barnburner round.

And we can't ignore that recoil "feel" is largely affected by one's expectations. If you "know" that such-and-such a gun is going to hurt...usually because you've been told that by other people...it will! Has anyone ever really noticed recoil when shooting at game? To me, one of the main goals of extensive shooting with hunting rifles is to teach yourself that it isn't the terror that many make it out to be. You will shoot much better on game if your concentration is focused on the game and the shooting technique...rather than the unreasoning terror others have instilled in you. So practice with comfortable loads, saving the heavies for the hunt.

Funny how so many guys can't shoot this magnum or that big-bore, but then they go into a goose pit and fire off a box or two of 3.5-inch loads without bursting into tears...or pattern a turkey gun...and then adamantly complaint that they "can't" fire a pal's magnum rifle because it hurts too much. Looking at the numbers shows that the shotgun is kicking them as hard or harder...but nobody taught them to be scared of it, so they aren't.

It's not "all in your head"...but a good part of it certainly is.
 
Last edited:
Also when normally shooting from a bench one is usually wearing a tee shirt etc but when hunting season rolls around in the cooler months one is normally wearing a lot more clothes that help soak up recoil a bit
 
I find factory turkey loads in a 12ga or even 20ga kick harder than my 458wm and make my 4570 double rifle a joy to shoot. Sure it bumps your shoulder but nothing like many complain about

Both 3030 and 4570 have proven track records. 3030 is boring and cheap but it works. 4570 has the big bore appeal and you pay more for that

On game performance the 4570 visibly hits harder and let's more light in

Split the difference and go with the new 360 buckhammer
 
chasseur said:
In the past I had a Shiloh Sharps in 45/120,now with full loads and having a crescent butt plate and shooting from a bench that gun would kick but to be fair that’s not what they were designed for.I think the worst 45/70 I ever shot recoil wise was a Ruger #3 .That gun was too light for the cartridge even one chambered for 44mag would give you a wrap on the fingers with the lever .
Click to expand...

I bought a new Ruger #3 back in '74 and yes, it was a booter from the bench without a poosy pad. I bonked me 1st black bear with 'er though using a factory CIL 405 gr load. Rossi has the R95 Trapper out now which would be a nice one to work with I reckon.

https://rossiusa.com/rifles/lever-action-rifles/408-r95-lever-action-45-70-govt
 
Andrewstclair said:
any real advantages to either one over the other? curious to hear opinions i tried the search button but didn't find much.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the 45-70 lever guns usually cost more. Past that it resides in the domain of personal preference, and how good you are at holdovers (which on a 30-30 would be almost half that of a 45-70 @ 200yds, if sighted for 100yds).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom