215 cast round nose in a Mark 1 #4 in a B.S.A Shirley 1944

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little pete

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I have a very nice factory sporterized Mark 1 #4 303 1944 rifle which I have dismantled and cleaned. The rifling when I slugged the barrel came out at 310 with one higher spot giving a 311. Four inches down the front the next slug came out the same and a slug drifted up through the throat the same again, so it appears to have good rifling. In this rifle I would like to shoot a 215 cast round nose with both black powder and modern. Has anyone shot the 215 and if so what kind of a load did you use. Any info would be helpful.

thanks

little pete
 
little pete said:
I have a very nice factory sporterized Mark 1 #4 303 1944 rifle which I have dismantled and cleaned. The rifling when I slugged the barrel came out at 310 with one higher spot giving a 311. Four inches down the front the next slug came out the same and a slug drifted up through the throat the same again, so it appears to have good rifling. In this rifle I would like to shoot a 215 cast round nose with both black powder and modern. Has anyone shot the 215 and if so what kind of a load did you use. Any info would be helpful.

thanks

little pete
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I shoot a Lyman .314299 out of several Lee enfields and a couple of Rose Rifles. I have also had good luck with the Lyman 311467 (loverin type bullet).
I have used Unique and 3031. The #2 alloy gives bullets that are about 210 and 195 grains from the molds I use. I have discovered the speed limit on my alloy is just over 1900fps. As for black powder? It gives you a bank, smoke, and corrossive fouling.

Also use a gas check on the bullet if you are using a slower powder like 3031.
I have found that gas checks improve accuracy a great deal and allow higher veleocities with slower powders.
 
One edge of the groove to the other?

I did this with my 5 groove Lee Enfield and my P-14 Enfields, and most slugged out to .311
 
That won't give either bore or groove diameter.
On the slug, the imprint of a land is directly opposite the imprint of the groove. You can't measure across the slug. With a barrel with an odd number of grooves, there is no way to directly measure bore or groove diameter with a caliper or micrometer. Easy if there is an even number of lands and grooves.
 
tiriaq said:
That won't give either bore or groove diameter.
On the slug, the imprint of a land is directly opposite the imprint of the groove. You can't measure across the slug. With a barrel with an odd number of grooves, there is no way to directly measure bore or groove diameter with a caliper or micrometer. Easy if there is an even number of lands and grooves.
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Use a shallow " V " block that fits in the micrometer and supports the slugged bullet on the raised portions left by the grooves. Calibrate by measuring an unfired bullet of the same diameter, then subtract the known diameter from the V block diameter to get a constant. Subtracting this constant from a measured fired (or barrel slug) will give a very close approximation of groove diameter.
Very simple to make from a piece of brass or aluminum.
 
Yes, there are techniques that can be used. My point was that you can't get a meaningful measurement by going at the slug with a caliper or micrometer.
 
tiriaq said:
Yes, there are techniques that can be used. My point was that you can't get a meaningful measurement by going at the slug with a caliper or micrometer.
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I have a small brass V block that can be used with a micrometer or caliper. It took about ten minutes to make and calibrate and gives accurate measurements. I just have to subtract the constant I have determined for the V block by measuring a round unfired bullet by itself, then in the v block, then subtracting the difference to get the constant.
 
In a way, this is akin to using wires and a micrometer to measure threads. The measurement is obtained indirectly, using known constants.
For bore diameter, I have used plug gauges. Do you know of any alternative methods?

Just did some quick calculation - for the vee block to make perfect tangental contact with the raised portions of a 5 groove slug, the angle of the vee block should be 108 degrees.
 
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I'm shooting the Lee 160-grain-plus-gas-check bullet designed for the Klack, using both Lee and Ross Rifles and having no troubles at all. Have been using straight wheelweight metal, well-fluxed, gas checks seated with that silly little Lee taper tool and using Lee Liquid Alox. Don't know how fast they are going, but no troubles at all with 20 grains of 2400, which was putting them out pretty fast. Accuracy from a scoped Number 4 and from an iron-sighted Ross was not bad: about 2 inches at 100 measured. Will be trying same idea with some 4198, once we get some of that darned Global Warming the Gummint seems to be hoarding, and get our Prairie ranges above the freeeeezing point. These things were going quite quickly..... no problems.
 
Why would anyone use black powder? That loading only exsisted for two years, and its BLOODY IMPOSSIBLE to duplicate since the BP was compressed into a solid pellet and inserted BEFORE the case was necked. Have nothing against using lead bullets, but they were NEVER used while the rifles were in service.
 
John Sukey said:
Why would anyone use black powder? That loading only exsisted for two years, and its BLOODY IMPOSSIBLE to duplicate since the BP was compressed into a solid pellet and inserted BEFORE the case was necked. Have nothing against using lead bullets, but they were NEVER used while the rifles were in service.
Click to expand...

There are some who claim that smokeless powder and brass cartridge cases are a passing fad... These are the same folks who complain that you can't ge quality flints any more at a reasonable price.
 
smellie said:
I'm shooting the Lee 160-grain-plus-gas-check bullet designed for the Klack, using both Lee and Ross Rifles and having no troubles at all.
Snip
Will be trying same idea with some 4198, once we get some of that darned Global Warming the Gummint seems to be hoarding, and get our Prairie ranges above the freeeeezing point. These things were going quite quickly..... no problems.
Click to expand...

Just what is a "Klack"??? An SKS???

And as for global warming, there are those people who do not understand teh concept of -40C and the fact that a person can lose fingers and toes to frostbite, not to mention freeze to death in an hour or so if they are not prepared for it.
The next world global warming meeting should be held in Snag in the Yukon in January and last for a week.
 
With cast bullets, I use the largest diameter bullet that will chamber - for my Lee Enfields, there isn't one that won't chamber a seated 0.314" bullet. I keep velocity (and pressure) down to 1600-1800 fps and don't typically use gas-checked bullets (using them pretty much doubles the cost per bullet). I use simple wheelweight + 2% tin, and powders in the quickness range that consume about a half-full case (Reloder 7, H4227, etc.). For slower speeds, e.g. 1300 fps, it's tough to beat Unique.
 
"One of these days".........I have often wondered how a cast bullet in the 210 grain size, not a bore riding style, at .314" would shoot in my rifles. A mould from one of the best custom makers would be nice. I shoot the Lyman 210 grain bore riding style now and while they shoot consistently, they don't seem accurate enough for me. I would like to try something in a round nose with a gas check although I read here that the gas check may not be necessary with a hard enough alloy of lead. Good thread guys. Dave
 
Hello folks.
You bet I believe smokeless powder is a passing phase and good flints are to expensive and I like to try black powder in my old guns. Why can't you measure the bore by using a calipher? And yes unless I use a clever method I am not goiing to get the measurement from the lands but for now a calculated guess and a .314 cast lead bullet is bringing that old Martini Henry 1899 conversion into a pretty good group a 100 yards. :) Gotta love the way the threads develope on this site, the info and imput is just great. Many thanks to you all. little pete
 
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