Enfield Sporters for a first hunting rifle?

[manbearpig]

now before you read any further please understand that im not 'insulting' anyones Lee Enfields, or their function and reliability as a battle rifle. Enfields can be a touchy subject around here
they are cool as hell - a rifle steeped in history and nostalgia and every Canadian should own at least one in their collection - i just dont agree that it should be their first rifle. i see people advising new hunters looking for their first gun to 'just get a sporterized Enfield' as if its the end-all solution to a new hunter's needs.

IMO there is no way that a sporterized Enfield comes close to the safety, accuracy, ease of scope mounting, parts/accessories availability and condition (ie: headspace, bore, crown, etc) of an entry level modern bolt action. the .303 Brit can take any game in N. America, but ammo is more expensive with less of a selection than .308, .30-06, .etc. if they reload a modern action is much more forgiving than a half-century old milsurp action that was designed in the 1800s and is already being pushed to its limit.

unless you know and trust the person you are buying it from, buying a sporterized/bubba'd Enfield is a total crapshoot: you could be looking forward to keyholed 12" groups at 100 yards if you are unlucky, and possibly a trip or two to the gunsmith to correct problems with headspace, crown, scope mounting, etc. this would never happen with a new rifle.

IMO they would be much better off with a Stevens, or even a low-end Savage package, or hell even something like the much-maligned Remington 770. as much as i hate them, i would rather steer someone towards a dreaded Remmy 770 as a first rifle than a sporterized Enfield

accuracy would be the main issue: there are some sporterized Enfields out there capable of impressive groups, but there is no guarantee youll get one - and a chance youll get one that shoots horribly. back when they were $50 you could buy a couple and experiment, and worst case end up with a spare parts gun.... but Enfields havent been $50 for a long time - most sporterized Enfields i have seen are up there at Stevens/Savage 111FCXP3 package prices. most modern bolt actions can be expected to shoot 1-2" groups out of the box with at most a bedding job and experimentation with a few different brands of factory ammo - and the Savages/Stevens will unquestionably shoot better than that out of the box.
while accuracy isnt everything, owning an accurate gun - especially as a new hunter - sure makes things easier and a lot more fun.

that said, this is just my opinion and why when someone is looking for their first rifle and is on a budget i dont recommend they get a sportered Enfield. if you feel otherwise and think they do make a good first rifle, please explain why

 

[bigstickpilot]

cool breeze mon, doan get ya nikkas wet

especially when SIR has Stevens 7mm mag on the rack for $233. no lie. saw with my own peepers.

 

[cdngunner]

Of course I would recomend it.
For a young person who had just spent over $600 gettin licensed a $75 gun that can bring down a moose would be great. Plus the gun can be bashed around all day and still be able to shoot.

Kinda like asking people whythe would drive a WV beetle Version 1.00. Its a great learning vehicle that will take the buse of someone learning.

Myfirst rifle was a brand new Win 94. It still bares the scares from me learning how to get around in a bush.

 

[t-star]

it's just that decent 303 brit is becoming hard to find- and for what we used to pay for a "sportered" lee there's other choices now available especially used- unless you MUST have a 10 round mag

 

[manbearpig]

Kinda like asking people why they would drive a WV beetle Version 1.00. Its a great learning vehicle that will take the abuse of someone learning.

the original beetle, as much as i like them, would be a horrible first vehicle if any highway driving is involved. they have piss-poor acceleration and braking distance - both of which can save your life.

then you get into the smaller things like RWD, very low to the ground, lightweight & no safety features, poor ergonomics (shifter, pedal geometry, etc), dim lights and poor visibility.

an old beetle would make a horrible first car compared to something like a new compact car full of safety features, excellent brakes, excellent visibility, etc. not just from the perspective of driveability and responsiveness but also a likelihood of avoiding/surviving an accident. id only recommend an old beetle to experienced drivers, and even they would have to exercise caution unless the brakes were upgraded to discs and a lot of work was done to the vehicle to improve its performance.

also, there are no more $75 Enfields in good shooting condition - thats part of my point.

 

[cdngunner]

Its funny. All the people I know that learned on the bugs have never been in situations where all those safety features would be needed. I guess they have to build cars now to make up for the lack of experience of the driver!

I'm sure your one.

oh btw piss poor excellleration is a good thing for teaching a new driver

 

[bigstickpilot]

woops

especially when SIR has Stevens 7mm mag on the rack for $233. no lie. saw with my own peepers.

and before someone jumps on me for recommending a magnum, SIR also has Stevens in .243 for $315. My choice, if I was starting again.

 

[manbearpig]

I'm sure your one.

^as far as troll attempts go, that was pretty weak.

you need help if you are seriously recommending an old beetle with its 4 wheel un-boosted drum brakes and 1000-foot highway stopping distance to a new driver in 2008. it has nothing to do with 'driver skill' and everything to do with simple physics and the fact that highways and the cars on them have changed a lot since the '60s.

when you are on the 401 with no shoulder and traffic in the other lane, and the guy in the Lexus in front of you stops on a dime with his 4 wheel power disc brakes, what are you going to do, smart guy?

oh btw piss poor excellleration is a good thing for teaching a new driver

acceleration contributes to safety - when you want to merge with traffic you can quickly speed up to the traffic flow rather than putter along and become a road hazard.

these days it takes an advanced driver to drive an old beetle on the highway safely, and i wouldnt even do that without at least a front wheel disc brake conversion.

 

[ratherbefishin]

Parker Hale conversions are available ,some in excellent condition and often with a scope already mounted,for $200-$250-and thats tough to beat,plus you can find 303 ammunition everywhere,as a lot of dead moose can testify to

 

[manbearpig]

id buy $75 Enfield sporters in good shooting condition without hesitation. the entire point of this thread is that they are going for $300 now, and for that much you can get a brand new entry level bolt action.

1 303 Lee Enfield #4 Deluex sporter Monty carlo stock Deluex wood 5 shot mag C/W Weaver Base $ 350.00 and shipping

1 303 Lee Enfield sporter #1 mk3 tapped and drilled for weaver base no clip $115.00 and shipping

That's right folks. I have a 1916, Lee Enfield Sporter Mark 1 No.3 for sale. It comes with a scope mount. I am asking $225 plus shipping.

ENFIELD 308 WITH SYNTHETIC STOCK $250+ SHIPPING

The gun would provide some great parts or a base to rebuild a really great Long Lee. Price is $280 Shipped. Barrel has seen better days and has rifling but would consider it fair only.

i havent seen a sportered Enfield for $75 that wasnt missing something important like the mag or needed a new barrel in years, much less in just 'mount a scope and go hunting' condition.

i suspect that many people who are voting YES to this poll are still under the impression that you can get good sporters for $50 these days. if that was the case, this thread would never have existed.

 

[cdngunner]

i suspect that many people who are voting YES to this poll are still under the impression that you can get good sporters for $50 these days. if that was the case, this thread would never have existed.

Well I have to talk to my dealer and see what the prices are like.

If the prices are equal, I'd probably buy the new one too

 

[cdngunner]

^as far as troll attempts go, that was pretty weak.

you need help if you are seriously recommending an old beetle with its 4 wheel un-boosted drum brakes and 1000-foot highway stopping distance to a new driver in 2008. it has nothing to do with 'driver skill' and everything to do with simple physics and the fact that highways and the cars on them have changed a lot since the '60s.

when you are on the 401 with no shoulder and traffic in the other lane, and the guy in the Lexus in front of you stops on a dime with his 4 wheel power disc brakes, what are you going to do, smart guy?


acceleration contributes to safety - when you want to merge with traffic you can quickly speed up to the traffic flow rather than putter along and become a road hazard.

these days it takes an advanced driver to drive an old beetle on the highway safely, and i wouldnt even do that without at least a front wheel disc brake conversion.

Again, I dont think the hiway is a place to LEARN, which would make most of your argument moot!

 

[manbearpig]

for the record i think this takes the cake as the biggest thread derailment ever


i understand what youre saying and i do agree with you that they would make a good first car for a teen if you were living outside of a big city. theyre very simple, reliable, no distractions and nothing much that can go wrong. id even leave the old AM radio in them.

the problem on busy highways is that they are capable of getting up to speeds from which they are incapable of safely braking. an aftermarket booster and front disc brake retrofit solves this. the front disc brakes from the older VW buses can be made to fit, but there are also aftermarket kits available.

and now back to the regularly scheduled enfield discussion. i am sadly losing this poll - im the one guy that thinks they wouldnt make a good first rifle

 

[woodchopper]

I said no.

sporter enfields are allright but there are many other better choices now, particulary the stevens.

a bubba enfield can be of dubious quality from utter crap to a nice Parker Hale, and the prices are getting silly for all enfields lately. And unless you know someone who knows enfields and is willing to look for a good one your risking getting something that shoots 4" groups at best and streches brass or has bad headspacing.

leave the bubba's to the enfield collectors, nothing says "go hunting young lad" like a new out of the box rifle.

 

[looch]

I think the reason why they make a great first rifle is simply because most people would not have to buy one. There was one sitting in my dad's safe waiting for me. I have one in my safe waiting for my nephew. They are hand-me-down rifles.

Even still, they have a more solid feel about them than new guns in the 300-400 range. If wanted something brand new, I'd be inclined to save my dough and buy a Ruger or something.

 

[Woodsman]

At the same price of course a new Savage is a better option. However, lot's of folks have one of these lying around in their collection and usually offer them to friends and acquantances for free or a small amount of cash to encourage newcomers into the sport. Not everyone is as well versed in what guns are worth and frankly many don't give a darn. I could have picked up an odd assortment of 6 guns for a lousy $300.00 off a neighbor of mine a year ago. One of which was a Lee Enfield sporter, but all of them were in rough shape and I couldn't be bothered with the pile of junk.

 

[manbearpig]

the poll was meant for people who come here and say 'im on a budget and need a first rifle, what do i get?'.

its assuming:
1. go to EE and buy sporter Enfield
2. go to gunstore and buy something like a Stevens or *shudder* Remington 770

take all factors into consideration that will come up for a new shooter: fit, scope mounting, etc.

id take a 'free' hand-me-down sporter Enfield for a first rifle anyday, but to keep it fair lets assume you have to actually buy one.

 

[todbartell]

Id rather a Stevens 200

 

[Violator22]

Ya mean you wouldn't offer a Rem 710 to a starter.

 

[Andy]

The Lee Enfield is a great first gun, as are many others, but it depends on your budget as to whether or not it's the best for a particular individual.

Scoped Lee Enfield sporters exist for $150-250 (and no I don't know of one right now, or have one for sale). If you can buy a new Savage, Stevens or the likes taxes in and scope mounted for the same or less, you should. Those guns are cheap, but of course they have NO SOUL.