The Mystique of the Pre-64 Winchester M70

[South Pender]

I see Pre-64 Win. M70s being advertised for higher prices than new-production M70s. Not being a M70 owner myself, I’ve wondered whether the pre-64s were better in some substantive way than the new-production models. In the years following 1963, when Winchester went to push-feed M70s and cheaper construction, it made sense to value the CRF pre-64s more highly, but, as I understand it, the M70s that have been manufactured in the last 15 or 20 years (maybe more) are CRF and appear to be nicely-made rifles.

I get the attraction to the pre-64s for collectors and perhaps for sentimental value, but are they superior to the current CRF M70s operationally or in quality of construction? I haven’t had a new-manufacture one in hand, but from pictures it seems to be pretty much the same action as the pre-64s. I guess one difference is the metal finish on the receivers. And the trigger is enclosed in a housing in the new ones, but that doesn’t seem like much of an advantage (or disadvantage), as the original M70 trigger was highly regarded.

So is there something other than nostalgia working in favour of the pre-64s that accounts for their high asking prices?

 

[Rod]

I've owned, hunted with, collected and admired the pre-64 M70 for a long time. The pre-64 M70 was a combination of hand machining and hand fitting but assembled on a line. My favorites are ones built before 1962. The present day M70's are a fine rifle and if I was to buy a new rifle that would be it.

To compare the pre-64's to the present day models is similar to comparing the present day Colt Python to the original Pythons. Looks similar but different. To build the new models to compete in the price range of what buyers can afford the hand machining and hand fitting has been mostly eliminated by design changes to allow the components to be CNC machined.

If you own an original pre-64 M70, that's still in fine original condition, you'll understand the difference. The pre-64's have a soul that the new ones seem to lack. The hand checkering, hand fitting, the style of the stock the way it handles recoil so easily and the simplicity of the design and quality of the build is what's appreciated by so many folks.

I've handled the new ones and I like them they've done a fine job in copying the originals in modern economic times and would feel proud in owning one but they're not hand machined and hand fitted and built by Olin Winchester and not built in North America but built by FN in who knows where and assembled in Portugal. It's claimed they're built with superior metal and handle gas escape better and other buzz phrases to help give a reason to buy a new one which is okay, good advertising, and that's okay because it's as close as it comes to a pre-64 M70 which is "The Rifleman's Rifle".

 

[bunny]

There is something magical about a M 70 built in the fifties few other rifle's compare

 

[gwes2003]

I own two pre 64 (195, 1954) and 3 2015 models. I love them all but personally think the 2015 are just nicer feeling. Wouldn't pay more for a pre 64. Yes the newer ones are assembled in Portugal, but from what ive seen in my lgs they are just fine and worth the price tag. I personally think cnc is a much better process and is more precise than manual machining imo.
Either way you cant go wrong with either version of a model 70.

 

[Peecos]

I prefer the newer version. Owned several pre 64s but never kept any. Biggest reason for me are the stocks, not even close to today’s models in wood. Find the newer ones smoother to cycle as well.

 

[Falconflyer]

Model 70's have always been my favourite bolt action rifles and I've had quite a few pass through my hands over the years. I've never been disappointed with a pre-64 but when the first controlled feed M70's came out in the late eighties they frankly were junk by comparison, mostly just poor QC by the manufacturer. They have since gotten a lot better and one of my favourite post-64 controlled round M70's is a Super Grade in 25-06 made around the year 2000, the quality of build is second to none. There's nothing really wrong with the push feed models but the early ones without the anti bind guide on the bolt don't feed all that well. The only thing better about the new production M70's is the ergonomics of the stock which I feel are better.
Pre-64 M70's are highly collectable and that can be a hobby unto itself. I have a small collection and the centerpiece is a 300 H&H that is unmolested and completely original, these are desirable by collectors and my brother in law has the same rifle with a 4 digit serial number. Some of the more rare calibers bring a lot of money, so much so that you have to be very careful of forgeries!

 

[Pat Brennan]

Having had at least a few classics and FN built model 70s as well as "several" pre 64s I am solidly in the pre 64 camp. I do like the stocks on the classics, both fwt and sporter though! I think the later fwts (most recent) are a bit chubbier.
More often than not I end up using a quality synthetic stock for my serious hunting rifles.
Certainly some optimistic pricing out there on some pre 64s, but it is still (mostly) a free country!

 

[BigUglyMan]

As the other posters have said, the Pre64 Model 70 was incredibly well-built and finely finished. Ultimately, that is what killed it. In the 90s Winchester brought back their "Classic" Model 70 which was a very faithful version of the original. They were changed in the late 2000s where they changed the trigger. It's arguable whether the new trigger is actually better than the original and discussions can get very heated on the subject. I'm a real fan of the simplicity of the original trigger. But the new rifles generally have nicer wood than the Pre64 versions.

I wouldn't be sad if I was buying a new rifle today and I could find what I wanted in a Model 70. I own one Classic and four Pre64s so it's safe to say that I am a fan of the Model 70.

 

[Joel]

They're very nice. Particularly like the pre 64 featherweight better than the current featherweights.

Can't say the New Haven Classic and later rifles aren't as good or better though, IMO. The mystique is collector/fudd lore in my opinion. Which is just fine.

 

[nowarningshot]

All the rifles I've ever owned only had one pre 64 m70. Absolute work of art, or more accurately...work of craftsmanship.

 

[kevin.303]

Has anyone ever actually seen one in 7.65 Argentine Mauser? Its always listed as an offering in the blue book and other sources but ive never seen or heard tell of one in the wild.

 

[Pete04]

I bought one, here on EE, in .300 H&H a few years back.
Came in the post with serious stock damage. Foockers.

They denied it was their fault but the seller and I persisted for months. In the end postal insurance paid for a new hand made stock. It's a beautiful stock and fits perfectly but it's just not the original.
Yes, I still hate them foockers.

 

[mikeyb]

I've owned a couple of pre-64s, a lot of pushfeed Model 70s, a few New Haven "pre-64" post-64 Model 70s, and one new Browning Viana-made Model 70 Featherweight. Probably a dozen or so in total by now. It's not a big sample size but the newest was the best. I parted with it only because it didn't capture the magic of "the one that got away", which was a New Haven "pre-64" Featherweight in 6.5x55 (the Browning mfgr was a 6.5 Creedmoor - totally not the same vibe!).

On the other hand, the 6.5x55 was sold for an engagement ring and I still have the girl after 20 years, so I got that going for me. She doesn't like it when I pull her triggers, though.

Edit: I guess what I should say is I didnt find anything special about the *real* pre-64 rifles I owned. The metalwork wasn't as nice, they didn't shoot as well, but they were pretty and *totally* had a vibe to them. Classy, and for price t at the time they were worth it, but today's prices, no way.

 

[anglia2]

I've owned a few over the years , really well made rifles . My last one went to my best friend for his 40th birthday . It was a Featherweight in 30/06 . Not surprisingly , it's one of his favourite rifles . I've shot a few of the newer CRF model 70's as well , very nice rifles as well . I briefly had a push feed Featherweight in 7x57 that I really liked , it went to another friend as well ............... I'm detecting a bit of a pattern .

 

[Dorian Gray]

I've only ever handled one pre-64 model 70. It was a beautiful rifle. A Featherweight in 30-06. Fit and finish was great. Wish I had got a chance to shoot it.

That being said, I bought a new (Portuguese) manufactured one last year. A stainless, wood stocked Featherweight in 6.5 Creedmoor. It's flawless. Fit and finish are pretty well perfect. If I had one gripe, it would be that the trigger was heavier than I wanted it to be. I've been spoiled with lightened Tikka triggers for the past half decade or so . I ended up swapping out the trigger for a Timney as I wanted a lighter pull weight than could be achieved with the factory offering. Otherwise, it's a superb rifle for the money. If the Pre-64's are any better I'd be happy and proud to own one.

 

[Rod]

The triggers on the pre-64's are excellent plus. They are adjustable and simple in design. The pre-64 trigger assy. is hand machined from Winchester Proof Steel and hand fitted and are adjustable for pull weight by someone who knows what they're doing. The trigger pull can be light and precise with no creep. The last few years I've been using my featherweights for hunting; 30-06, 270, 308 and 243. Here's four I use quite often.

270 Win F/W

30-06 F/W

308 F/W

243 F/W

.
.

 

[gordonlbyrne]

Wow some beauties there for sure, I don’t have any pre 64 M70 rifles but I do have a m70 made in 1975 and a lightweight made i1983. They are push fed rifles .I can’t see why there is so much hate out there for the push feed post 64 rifles .By the early seventies Winchester had corrected the shortcomings of the 1964 rifle and were making some very nice push feed rifles in the seventies and eighties .

 

[track]

I've owned, hunted with, collected and admired the pre-64 M70 for a long time. The pre-64 M70 was a combination of hand machining and hand fitting but assembled on a line. My favorites are ones built before 1962. The present day M70's are a fine rifle and if I was to buy a new rifle that would be it.

To compare the pre-64's to the present day models is similar to comparing the present day Colt Python to the original Pythons. Looks similar but different. To build the new models to compete in the price range of what buyers can afford the hand machining and hand fitting has been mostly eliminated by design changes to allow the components to be CNC machined.

If you own an original pre-64 M70, that's still in fine original condition, you'll understand the difference. The pre-64's have a soul that the new ones seem to lack. The hand checkering, hand fitting, the style of the stock the way it handles recoil so easily and the simplicity of the design and quality of the build is what's appreciated by so many folks.

I've handled the new ones and I like them they've done a fine job in copying the originals in modern economic times and would feel proud in owning one but they're not hand machined and hand fitted and built by Olin Winchester and not built in North America but built by FN in who knows where and assembled in Portugal. It's claimed they're built with superior metal and handle gas escape better and other buzz phrases to help give a reason to buy a new one which is okay, good advertising, and that's okay because it's as close as it comes to a pre-64 M70 which is "The Rifleman's Rifle".

I have a Colt Diamond Back and Trooper and everything works as smooth as glass. As for the Pre 64 model 70, compared to todays models, I cannot tell a difference. However, I'm not an expert on the bygone days of the Winchesters.

 

[Joel]

Is there still hate for push feed Winchesters? They aren't overvalued like the CRF models, but never heard anyone hate on them.

I wasn't around to read gun rags in the 60s and 70s though.

 

[DGY]

I don’t know about hate, but people do regard them as a lower value m70 from what I can see.
I’ve never owned one or shot one! I really like the look of the new m70 featherweight, the checkering, the stock style and aesthetics, but they seem to all come w/o sights…