Raven9 Bullet Sellection?

Canuck44

Canuck44

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OK for those of us who have dropped a couple of Grand on the Raven9 what does your Raven like to run. So far mine likes about1K round nose bullets, be they 124gr. BDX or 124 Lead Round Nose or 115 Plated RN but nothing else. Nope on truncated cone 125 gr lead, nope on plated CanPro 147 gr RNFP. Nothing but stove pipes on anything but RN bullets. Some of this might be because the design of the gun does not use a ramp to guide the bullets into the chamber. It does feed flat points sometimes but sometimes doesn't work in competitions.

For me this is kind of a major hick up and I am hoping it is just my gun and there is a remedy waiting for me to discover.

Take Care

Bob
 
Not a raven owner but that has been my experience with the FX9. 115 124 gr rn is about all it will shoot and cycle consistently. I find the round and gun fun but I never expect much accuracy past 75-100 yards. Hollow points don't cycle well for me at all neither do 147gr hp or rn.
 
Smokinyotes said:
All I have ran is Blazer Brass 115 &124 RN. No issues with either of those.
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As stated in my OP my gun handles RN bullets bullets fine. So far anything like a FP bullet jams the gun nose up. My FX9 does run 147gr RNFP bullets most of the time.

This really is a downer considering my CX4 Storm and two former Ruger PC9's ran RNFP's just fine.

For folks who plan on using the Raven9 and FX9 for defending their homes from attacking Zombies you might want to reconsider your options. Reliability is an absolute key when playing the games or dealing with Zombies trying to enter your home.

Take Care

Bob
 
Non ramped barrels are ####e at feeding everything except rn...example is the gen 1 FX9 with out the chamfer on the chamber. Jamm-o-mattic.
Like any firearm, you need to establish what works and what doesn't. As for home defense, there is no such thing in Canada...so not being able to use home defense rounds is a mute point. Plus, if you going to use ANYTHING for home defense it should be a pump shotty. That sounds of racking a round would make any home invader crap their pants.

Cheers
 
AlphaCharlieDelta said:
Non ramped barrels are ####e at feeding everything except rn...example is the gen 1 FX9 with out the chamfer on the chamber. Jamm-o-mattic.
Like any firearm, you need to establish what works and what doesn't. As for home defense, there is no such thing in Canada...so not being able to use home defense rounds is a mute point. Plus, if you going to use ANYTHING for home defense it should be a pump shotty. That sounds of racking a round would make any home invader crap their pants.

Cheers
Click to expand...

You absolutely CAN defend yourself with a gun in Canada.

As for the OP, that's really ####ty that a gun of that sort of price is only reliable with RN. Why do Canadian manufacturers do this to us!?
 
ACD non of your post makes any sense.

Suther is right on about self defense. You might want to read the Criminal Code of Canada before you listen to Trudeau and his crowd. I sat on a jury that felt with this very subject. The lady was found not guilty for defending her and her husband with a shotgun. Somewhere there is a 1st Nation walking around with one arm. She blew it off with a 12 gauge shotgun. The Judge instructions to is made it clear you have a right to defend yourself from harm within your home.

While expect guns can vary in performance using different types of ammo I don't expect a gun not to be able to shoot common bullet combination for the caliber of the gun.

Take Care

Bib
 
look at the history of the 9mm in any firearm and there is a reason for using only round nose projectiles. Yes you can use semi wad cutters or hollow points and the like but do so at your own peril.
 
Sqr said:
look at the history of the 9mm in any firearm and there is a reason for using only round nose projectiles. Yes you can use semi wad cutters or hollow points and the like but do so at your own peril.
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Is there a police department in Canada using RN bullets? I have three PCC's and at least 10 9mm pistols thar run RNFP and hollow point bullets just fine. Not sure why you say the above. What is the basis for your opinion.

Take Care

Bob.
 
I was at the range today and inspected the chamber of a Raven 9... no feed ramp, non chamfered chamber entrance. This guy had trouble with multiple brands of RN as well as issues with pretty much all non round nose. Only thing his would feed reliably was CCI Blazer Brass 124gr.
The PMC he was trying jammed every third round, and he had issues with rem 115's, and federal 124's {maybe something to do with the crimp or seating on those brands? I don't reload so not sure)
As a note, two of our club shooters that have them have been burning through firing pins. One is on his fifth, the other his third.

Really is a damn shame that Canadian companies are having such an issue manufacturing a reliable PCC
 
Suther said:
You absolutely CAN defend yourself with a gun in Canada.
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The Criminal Code, section 35, defines our rights with respect to defending our property. If we believe, on reasonable grounds, that someone is unlawfully entering our property or about to damage it, we can take reasonable actions to prevent the person from entering our property, prevent them from stealing or damaging our property, and to physically remove them from our property. This means grabbing an intruder or burglar and knocking them down would be a reasonable defence, but shooting them would be deemed unreasonable. In Canada, the use of firearms for defence of self or property is generally prohibited by law.

The Criminal Code, section 34, deals with our right to lawfully defend ourselves (or our loved ones). Under the law, we can defend ourselves with reasonable force if we are physically attacked or if we have good reason to believe that a person is going to use force against us or against another person, such as a family member. However, our actions must be solely for the purpose of defending or protecting ourselves from harm. For example, if we continue to strike someone who is no longer a threat, then that action would not be perceived as lawful. As in the defence of property, a person can legally defend themselves by actions that are reasonable in the circumstances. Some of the factors that the courts will use to judge if you used reasonable force in defending yourself are:

-What was the nature of the threat or force?
-How imminent was the threat to our safety (i.e. is the danger just about to happen or do we have time to avoid a physical altercation)?
-Did we have other options to respond to the threat, other than physical force?
-Did either my attacker or I use a weapon?
-What was the relative size, age, gender and strength of the two parties involved in the incident?
-Do the parties involved have a prior relationship or a history of disagreements or fighting?
-Was my response to the threat or attack relatively proportionate to the attacker’s action?
-Was the threat or use of threat against me authorized by the law? (i.e. if police are lawfully entering your property or detaining you, you cannot use force to defend yourself against them.)
 
AlphaCharlieDelta said:
The Criminal Code, section 35, defines our rights with respect to defending our property. If we believe, on reasonable grounds, that someone is unlawfully entering our property or about to damage it, we can take reasonable actions to prevent the person from entering our property, prevent them from stealing or damaging our property, and to physically remove them from our property. This means grabbing an intruder or burglar and knocking them down would be a reasonable defence, but shooting them would be deemed unreasonable. In Canada, the use of firearms for defence of self or property is generally prohibited by law.

The Criminal Code, section 34, deals with our right to lawfully defend ourselves (or our loved ones). Under the law, we can defend ourselves with reasonable force if we are physically attacked or if we have good reason to believe that a person is going to use force against us or against another person, such as a family member. However, our actions must be solely for the purpose of defending or protecting ourselves from harm. For example, if we continue to strike someone who is no longer a threat, then that action would not be perceived as lawful. As in the defence of property, a person can legally defend themselves by actions that are reasonable in the circumstances. Some of the factors that the courts will use to judge if you used reasonable force in defending yourself are:

-What was the nature of the threat or force?
-How imminent was the threat to our safety (i.e. is the danger just about to happen or do we have time to avoid a physical altercation)?
-Did we have other options to respond to the threat, other than physical force?
-Did either my attacker or I use a weapon?
-What was the relative size, age, gender and strength of the two parties involved in the incident?
-Do the parties involved have a prior relationship or a history of disagreements or fighting?
-Was my response to the threat or attack relatively proportionate to the attacker’s action?
-Was the threat or use of threat against me authorized by the law? (i.e. if police are lawfully entering your property or detaining you, you cannot use force to defend yourself against them.)
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Cool story bro.

If it was illegal judges wouldn't be weighing any factors to determine if the force used was reasonable.
 
ACD. me, my wife and family are not property. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. I am sorry to be so blunt but I'll take the words of an Alberta Court of Queens bench and that of a retired local Judge over your opinion. I suspect they know more than you on this subject. There is case law on this literally going back centuries.

As to property we do not have Property Rights in Canada. They were excluded when Trudeau senior, and the Queen signed our present Constitution.

BTW with the exception of property, the American experience is not that dissimilar. The restrictions Suther writes about owe their basis to English Common Law.

In the attempted murder trial I participated in the ladies husband had a buck knife at his throat. She pushed a Mossberg shotgun under her husband's armpit and blew thebl intruders arm off. IIRC, the Judge made it clear to us that if the evidence presented supported this, and we eventually concluded it was, we were to find her not guilty. It did, and she was

Take Care

Bob
Ps. Well we both agree the Raven9 is no fan of RN bullets. That doesn't mean all guns made for the 9mm don't. If that were the case hollow point and semi wadcutter bullets would not be made. On another area of concern is the guns firing pin design. I do not know how common it is because I know of two other Ravens that have a couple thousand rounds thru them without incident. If I break another. I'll take it up with Lockhart.
 
ACD you noted the absence of a feed ramp and adequate throating. I think the absence of the feed ramp is the main issue. The fellow I shoot with, installed a 10 inch barrel on his and the barrel is well throated and the gun still jams up when fed RNFP bullets. I reload so the issue is not that big a deal. The gun runs 125 gr RN bullets just fine and that is what I use.

I have the answer to my original question

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
ACD. me, my wife and family are not property. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. I am sorry to be so blunt but I'll take the words of an Alberta Court of Queens bench and that of a retired local Judge over your opinion. I suspect they know more than you on this subject. There is case law on this literally going back centuries.

As to property we do not have Property Rights in Canada. They were excluded when Trudeau senior, and the Queen signed our present Constitution.

BTW with the exception of property, the American experience is not that dissimilar. The restrictions Suther writes about owe their basis to English Common Law.

In the attempted murder trial I participated in the ladies husband had a buck knife at his throat. She pushed a Mossberg shotgun under her husband's armpit and blew thebl intruders arm off. IIRC, the Judge made it clear to us that if the evidence presented supported this, and we eventually concluded it was, we were to find her not guilty. It did, and she was

Take Care

Bob
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Yup, the ignorance on these topics from some people is astounding. They seem to think just because Trudeau intimates something it must be true. Or they will ascribe their own media-fueled understanding on the current laws.

Case in point - very recently (within last 2 years I think) there was the case of Mr. Mian, a PAL owner, who successfully defended him and his mother (in the GTA) against multiple armed intruders. He was charged at first but then the charges were ultimately dropped. That case is yet another one that shows that, despite what Trudeau and his pals say, there are provisions for defending yourself against people wishing you harm or take your life. Only an idiot would accept the premise that you just roll over and let someone rape you or your loved ones or try to take your life) - it's easy for liberals to say that - but I betcha if they are face their spouse or daughter about to be raped by an armed intruder at night, that they won't just stand idly by and not physically intervene.

In Canada, you can buy firearms legal defence insurance through some insurance companies. If there was no possible legality to defending oneself with a firearm, this wouldn't even be an option.

That said, there are a lot of nuances and factors that will be considered (ie immanency, proportionality reasonableness, etc.), and unless you carry the aforementioned insurance, one will have to defend themselves twice: 1. physically from the person(s) who meant to do you grievous harm or attempt to take your life and 2. financially from the legal system and prosecutors.

But back to the subject at hand - the PCC for home defence is an interesting one. I don't own a Raven, never shot one but have heard that for range use, they are quite reliable. BUT as mentioned previously, if it is a HD / push back zombie scenario, where HP rounds are needed - it would be prudent for that person to actually test the HD rounds in their gun rather than assume because it feeds FMJ of one weight that a HP of another weight will work. Even then amongst HPs there is much variation. My FX9 will not not reliably feed Hornady Critical Defence, will feed Winchester Defender some of the time, Gold Dot G2 most of the time and will feed Federal HST most of the time. If you plan to use the firearm for HD purposes, definitely best to run every kind of round through it to see what works best. Even if it works best for one gun, it doesn't presume it will work equally well in an identical one.
 
thegazelle said:
But back to the subject at hand - the PCC for home defence is an interesting one. I don't own a Raven, never shot one but have heard that for range use, they are quite reliable. BUT as mentioned previously, if it is a HD / push back zombie scenario, where HP rounds are needed - it would be prudent for that person to actually test the HD rounds in their gun rather than assume because it feeds FMJ of one weight that a HP of another weight will work. Even then amongst HPs there is much variation. My FX9 will not not reliably feed Hornady Critical Defence, will feed Winchester Defender some of the time, Gold Dot G2 most of the time and will feed Federal HST most of the time. If you plan to use the firearm for HD purposes, definitely best to run every kind of round through it to see what works best. Even if it works best for one gun, it doesn't presume it will work equally well in an identical one.
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For competition or Self Defense I think 100% feeding would be a requirement. Right now I am using a Beretta 92FS for bed side company.. This pistol is 100% reliable feeding all the ammo I have tested. I have a mag of Win HP's that feed reliably in this and several other 9MM pistols at hand. Of the PCC's I own only the CX4 Storm 16" i would meet my criteria of 100% reliability. A very close friend has a CZ Scorpian that has proven to meet the test along with a Ruger PCC. The test is for HP factory ammo. The PCC's I use for competition are 100% reliable with reloaded 124 gr BDX bullets using mixed brass and any primer I have at hand. I do not include my Raven9 in the 100% reliability yet due to the broken firing pin issue. If the next 1K rounds run without incident it will join the rotation.

I should mention I don't use a PCC for defense of the home cuz I shoot my handguns way better. This is likely due to my relatively lack of experience with the PCC in Competition and the inept ability I have demonstrated with the PCC in the Competition sport. I suck!

Take Care
Bob
ps First IDPA match of the season over Easter. Sucked onions but had a lot of fun with the guys.
 
Canuck44 said:
Of the PCC's I own only the CX4 Storm 16" i would meet my criteria of 100% reliability. A very close friend has a CZ Scorpian that has proven to meet the test along with a Ruger PCC. The test is for HP factory ammo.
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Of course, both of these are on the OIC....arrgh...

I shot a CX4 Storm (rental) inside the gun range at West Edmonton Mall years ago. I don't remember much about it except that was like $58 for 10-15 rounds of 9mm (they forced me to buy it in order to use the gun) and I was shocked by how fast almost $60 went. I think the red dot that was on that thing was out of batteries as well. So hardly a great sample size. It was comfortable though!

I sold my Ruger PCC a couple of weeks ago. Needed the money and I had other PCCs that I enjoy using more.

I have heard nothing but positive things about the CZ Skorpion, and if that darn OIC ever gets overturned, that's the first thing I'm going to buy. Heck, I've been buying magazines over the years in the hope that that day will come when it is again legally available to purchase.
 
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