Tavor SAR double firing issue

T

tulazhen

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My Tavor was bought via equipment exchange. Due to the lockdown, I didn't try it until 2022.

In my hand, it ran great for the first 500 - 600 rounds. Then all of a sudden it doubled (pull trigger once and fire twice). That happend every 50 to 150 rounds, only doubling, not three or four rounds.

All the advice and research pointed to the trigger pack, and I replaced the factory one with Geissele Automatics Super Sabra Trigger pack. Firing pin spring, recoil spring were also replaced with new OEM parts.

It became good for about 250 rounds, and then started doubling again. I cleaned it, and it ran 150 rounds great, then started the doubling more frequently, like once per every 20 rounds.

I held the rifle very firmly towards the shoulder, therefore it could not be a bump fire. I tried two different magazines and at least three differen ammunitions, the same.

The online research shows some AR15s have the same issue because of the trigger pack, but nearly no clue for Tavors. Could anyone think of other causes? For example, Can dirtiness cause double firing? I doubt it since I clean it every 200 - 300 rounds.

Any advice is highly appreciated!
 
Karnage said:
Tavors get gunked up quite easily.
I suggest a thorough cleaning and lube job often.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick reply!

Is it possible the dirtiness caused a slam fire? If the firing pin got stuck (and there is a firing pin spring), why did it always only fire twice, not full auto?
 
tulazhen said:
Thanks for the quick reply!

Is it possible the dirtiness caused a slam fire? If the firing pin got stuck (and there is a firing pin spring), why did it always only fire twice, not full auto?
Click to expand...

To be clear, a firing pin stuck forward does not cause a slam fire. Pretty much all modern SA rifles will be designed so that the firing pin cannot get stuck forward, because that causes an out of battery explosion, which is VERY bad.

A slam fire is caused by a floating firing pin, like the AR15. When the bolt stops moving forward into battery, the firing pin keeps going under its own momentum and strikes the primer. This should really only happen with soft, match primers.

Doubling is either a slam fire or it is a trigger defect, which causes the hammer to fall after the bolt closes.

Have you installed and or adjusted a trigger bow to reduce or eliminate the slack in the trigger? Do you practice follow through with your trigger pull or are you very light on the trigger, which could cause bump firing due to recoil. Have a friend or someone else shoot the rifle and see if it happens with them.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
To be clear, a firing pin stuck forward does not cause a slam fire. Pretty much all modern SA rifles will be designed so that the firing pin cannot get stuck forward, because that causes an out of battery explosion, which is VERY bad.

A slam fire is caused by a floating firing pin, like the AR15. When the bolt stops moving forward into battery, the firing pin keeps going under its own momentum and strikes the primer. This should really only happen with soft, match primers.

Doubling is either a slam fire or it is a trigger defect, which causes the hammer to fall after the bolt closes.

Have you installed and or adjusted a trigger bow to reduce or eliminate the slack in the trigger? Do you practice follow through with your trigger pull or are you very light on the trigger, which could cause bump firing due to recoil. Have a friend or someone else shoot the rifle and see if it happens with them.
Click to expand...

You can have slam fires with a spring loaded firing pin provided there is enough momentum. That happened to me with a AG-42b.

To OP unless there is something happening in the mechanism causing the sear or hammer not to reset periodically, its how your using it. Looking online that trigger pack you bought can be adjusted, try increasing the trigger pull and see if that stops the doubling. If it is how your holding it, that should make it more difficult to double as when the trigger ‘breaks’ it will pull your finger farther. I doubt its the cleaning considering how religious you are about doing it.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
To be clear, a firing pin stuck forward does not cause a slam fire. Pretty much all modern SA rifles will be designed so that the firing pin cannot get stuck forward, because that causes an out of battery explosion, which is VERY bad.

A slam fire is caused by a floating firing pin, like the AR15. When the bolt stops moving forward into battery, the firing pin keeps going under its own momentum and strikes the primer. This should really only happen with soft, match primers.

Doubling is either a slam fire or it is a trigger defect, which causes the hammer to fall after the bolt closes.

Have you installed and or adjusted a trigger bow to reduce or eliminate the slack in the trigger? Do you practice follow through with your trigger pull or are you very light on the trigger, which could cause bump firing due to recoil. Have a friend or someone else shoot the rifle and see if it happens with them.
Click to expand...

Sorry for not seeing the reply earlier.

Have you installed and or adjusted a trigger bow to reduce or eliminate the slack in the trigger? No, I only installed the trigger pack. The issue happened with both factory and new trigger pack.

Do you practice follow through with your trigger pull or are you very light on the trigger, which could cause bump firing due to recoil. I follow through. Actually I have never experienced it on WK180c (it has an upgraded trigger) and Ruger PCC which have run 2000 rounds. I also have run about 3000 rounds on Ruger 10/22 and there was not such an issue.

Have a friend or someone else shoot the rifle and see if it happens with them A guy did shoot it and had the double fire. But it is a great idea to invite another person to try.

Thanks!
 
Last edited:
Eaglelord17 said:
You can have slam fires with a spring loaded firing pin provided there is enough momentum. That happened to me with a AG-42b.

To OP unless there is something happening in the mechanism causing the sear or hammer not to reset periodically, its how your using it. Looking online that trigger pack you bought can be adjusted, try increasing the trigger pull and see if that stops the doubling. If it is how your holding it, that should make it more difficult to double as when the trigger ‘breaks’ it will pull your finger farther. I doubt its the cleaning considering how religious you are about doing it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice!

I wish it was a slam fire but something is hard to explain.

First, if I use the rifle in an incorrect way, the doubling should happen at quite stable intervals, but a few days ago, the first 150 rounds went well, and then it started every 15 - 20 rounds. Earlier, the first 300 rounds went well and then doubling happened.

Second, doubling happened when the heavy factory trigger pack was in the rifle, that's why a new trigger pack was installed.

Third, doubling happened to various positions, standing, prone, sitting.

I will try to test the rifle tomorrow, including letting others shoot it.

Appreciate that.
 
Thank you for all the advice.

I tested it today. The rifle double fired at the 56th and 57th rounds, and again after about fifteen rounds.

As the rifle was not cleaned, I expected it to double fire within the first 20 rounds, but it didn't. It looks like when it heats up, some parts are out of spec.

I did the test on the bench, paying extra attention to trigger control. I believe it was not a bumpfire.
 
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