CZ Bren 2 Ms chambered in 7.62x39mm

Backpack said:
Seriously considering importing a 9" Bren from Irungns, any thoughts on the shorter barrel? I have a bunch of 7.62 kicking around and none of the bolt guns are doing it for me (...never should have sold my CZ carbine) Their pricing seems pretty good even after exchange and shipping.
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The 11" seems fine. The MoA seems larger than for my 18.7" 5.56mm, but I think that's to be expected (?). Having shot my friend's 8" carbine in 5.56mm, I personally wouldn't want a 9" barrel 7.62x39mm, but to each their own.

Does 2" make that much of a difference? Not sure. Certainly I've watched a lot of videos where the difference between 11" and 8" for AR-15s is relatively important, I'm not sure if that would be the case for 7.62x39, but I haven't researched it.
 
Backpack said:
Does anyone currently stock the CP Duramag 10rnd?
Any other suggestions on mags for these?
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I haven't seen any from the typical vendors but I was able to pick up a few used XCR pistol mags today on GP, they pop up every now and again.
 
My order of CP Duramag SS 28 round and D+H Tactical 30 round (both pinned to 5) came in from Irunguns.ca and I tried both at the range yesterday. The Duramags run completely smoothly, but the D+H Tactical mags can be overinserted if you don't be careful on the insert - especially if you commonly give the bottom of the mag a tap as you insert. Overinserting prevents the bolt carrier from coming forward with the bolt catch release lever or with a manual re-charging with the charging handle. You have to pull out the magazine until it clicks properly into the magazine retention lever arm. Once I knew to watch out for the over-insert on the D+H everything ran fine.

Pictures here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bren2/comments/1cvu051/cp_duramag_ss_28round_and_dh_tactical_30round
 
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I see on pics that D+H mags have an "assist ramp" (or whatever it's called) on top of window for magazine catch. This is one of the Bren 2 stupid design issues. In all their infinite wisdom CZ designers decided that mag catch is sufficient to control magazine insertion. As a result all mags with such ramp are easily overinserted. I had the same issue with ASC and they have barely pronounced ramp. You either have to insert magazine slowly, or do some regular wisdom prayers targeting CZ engineers.

 
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Horilka said:
I see on pics that D+H mags have an "assist ramp" (or whatever it's called) on top of window for magazine catch. This is one of the Bren 2 stupid design issues. In all their infinite wisdom CZ designers decided that mag catch is sufficient to control magazine insertion. As a result all mags with such ramp are easily overinserted. I had the same issue with ASC and they have barely pronounced ramp. You either have to insert magazine slowly, or do some regular wisdom prayers targeting CZ engineers.
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Ah! Excellent to know/hear. Glad I only bought one - I was curious about their ergonomic quality.

The only thing I see beneficial about them vs. the 28 round Duramag is that in their unpinned state they could hold 2 more rounds (possibly at the expense of potential feed spring jams) and they stick down about 2 inches less (maybe a smidge more) so you can get closer to the ground or bench if you're bench shooting. Otherwise, yeah, you have to be careful on the insert.
 
Is everyone pretty satisfied with their 11” 7.62 purchase. Man - I hummed and hawed on this a few weeks ago and missed some good pricing. Just doing a temperature check from those that have them? Cheers
 
CocoMelon said:
Is everyone pretty satisfied with their 11” 7.62 purchase. Man - I hummed and hawed on this a few weeks ago and missed some good pricing. Just doing a temperature check from those that have them? Cheers
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I'm enjoying mine - not shooting it a whole bunch because non-steel core ammo is almost double what I pay to shoot a round through my 5.56mm rifle and almost four times as much as 9mm. It's definitely very slick, well machined, smooth operating and a breeze to field strip, but I can't shoot it nearly as accurately as my 18.5" 5.56mm rifle. People are saying that the Bren 2 Ms in 11" chambered in 7.62mm will usually get you 2-3.5 MoA on average, and 1.5 MoA on a good day with good ammo is about the absolute best you can get. With my 5.56mm rifle (Crusader Arms Sentinel 5.56mm 18.5" - very similar to the Crusader Arms Templar Gen 1) - I can get 1.5-2 MoA fairly easily, and maybe 1.25-1.5 with decent ammo from a bench rest.

Currently the best I've shot with the Bren 2 Ms 11" is ~2.9 MoA with Hornady Black ammo from the bench. I'm new to the rifle, so I would hope that would improve, but it's still doesn't feel as easy shooting as the 5.56mm rifle. I've shot the 5.56mm Bren in 8" - it's softer, but not super-significantly so.

So, I like the rifle; it's clearly well made and on a different tier of quality than the CA Templar, but if you're looking for more accurate, I would go with a longer barrel 5.56mm.

I bought it as a rugged, SHTF-quality semi-auto rifle that will shoot one of the most common and easily obtained ammunition calibers in Canada. It ticks those boxes just fine. In terms of what I enjoy shooting more - (as opposed to cleaning, maintaining or disassembling) - I actually enjoy my Sentinel more. The Bren 2 is clearly a better overall rifle, but in the pure metric of "how satisfied do I feel when I SHOOT it", it's not the same.

If I didn't own a 5.56mm rifle already, I would've bought a 11" Bren 2 Ms in 5.56mm. So unless you really want to be able to shoot 7.62x39mm, go for the Westy version, not Combloc! Now, if you want a red rifle, I don't think you're going to get a much better SA in Canada with non-internal magazines. I would personally take the Bren 2 Ms 7.62 over a Type 81 or an SKS, but of course, you're paying much more, especially if you go NR.
 
That’s the kind of review I was looking for. Thank you.

I was horsing around looking at ammo and 1000 rounds of x39 is considerably more expensive than 5.56 these days which I gross. And I don’t want corrosive. That kind of swayed my decision a bit. I like you wanted a shtf tested rifle and I liked the idea of x39 in 11”. Something a little more compact with some boom. However the ammo had me questioning.

I did see a 16” Brenin 5.56 come up which would be a nice match with an lpvo and I think I would prefer that over the 11” 5.56 - or so I think. Any comment on that?

Again much appreciated for the review!
 
The Bren in 5.56 is an abomination to me, but I also converted multiple acr's so they were no longer 5.56.

Yes my opinion is biased and I don't care.

I would get the shortest possible and then the complete drop in conversion from Dlask when available to make it NR.

Comparing short barreled accuracy of the 7.62x39 in 11" to an 18.5" 5.56 is not a realistic comparison. The Bren will shoot as good or better in 7.62 with an 18.5" barrel using good ammo
 
Sure thing. Let me just bundle up this thread and move it over and let me PM everyone to make sure they know the new meeting spot. It’s a discussion of comparison related what is being discussed by other members - if you don’t like it don’t read. Simple.


Brian46 said:
Wrong section for 5.56 discussion
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CocoMelon said:
Sure thing. Let me just bundle up this thread and move it over and let me PM everyone to make sure they know the new meeting spot. It’s a discussion of comparison related what is being discussed by other members - if you don’t like it don’t read. Simple.
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A comparison would be the same 11" Bren in 7.62 and 5.56 with similar quality ammo.

CZ and their history/pedigree is with com block chambered arms. The curve required to run the 7.62x39 cartridge reliably in a regular capacity (30rnd) magazine is iconic.

This thread wasn't started as "what caliber Bren 2 should I get"
 
CocoMelon said:
That’s the kind of review I was looking for. Thank you.

I was horsing around looking at ammo and 1000 rounds of x39 is considerably more expensive than 5.56 these days which I gross. And I don’t want corrosive. That kind of swayed my decision a bit. I like you wanted a shtf tested rifle and I liked the idea of x39 in 11”. Something a little more compact with some boom. However the ammo had me questioning.

I did see a 16” Brenin 5.56 come up which would be a nice match with an lpvo and I think I would prefer that over the 11” 5.56 - or so I think. Any comment on that?

Again much appreciated for the review!
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My only experience with the Bren 2 in 5.56mm is a 8" version my shooting buddy owns. It is loud and the "perceived" recoil is much more than my 18.5" 5.56mm rifle - I'm not sure that it actually is. It's certainly harder to bring back on target for follow-up shots.

If someone said to me - you can have only one gun in your arsenal and it has to be either a Bren 2 Ms 11" in 5.56mm or one (same barrel length) in 7.62mm, to be completely honest, I'd probably pick the 5.56mm, but it would be a tough call. Now if someone had the same parameters with Bren 2 Ms 5.56mm 8" vs. Bren 2 Ms 7.62mm 11", I'd take the 7.62.

I have come to appreciate the handiness/ergonomics of shorter and lighter rifles, but there is a personal preference limit, and for me, that's 11" or so.

The "little more compact with some boom" factor is one of many criteria that lead me to the x39 version in the 11" barrel, but another was the cost vs. the 5.56mm NR cost.

Brian46 said:
Comparing short barreled accuracy of the 7.62x39 in 11" to an 18.5" 5.56 is not a realistic comparison.
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I mentioned it only in the context that I enjoy shooting one more vs. the other (I enjoy both!), and not that I was setting it up as an apples to apples comparison. Everyone has their biases and preferences.

To maybe put it another way; if, heaven forbid, everything went to hell in a hand basket, I would grab my Bren 2 Ms x39 11", no questions asked. If I'm just popping out to the range and want to get that sweet dopamine hit from a nice tight group of overlapping bullet holes, I'm going to grab my Crusader (or whatever other 5.56mm long(er) barrel SA rifle I end up with down the road).

If I were considering a new SA rifle in Canada right now, I would look at Bren 2 Ms in both calibers and all barrel lengths and the Tavor, evaluate my use case and preferred caliber (and cost of operation) and make the decision based on those factors.

I think the Bren 2 Ms x39 in 11" (or 13", or whatever barrel comes out next) and the Bren 2 Ms 5.56 in 11" or 16" would be great NR choices. I would not personally get the rifle in either caliber in 8" unless I seriously thought actual CQB and/or seriously fast paced IPSC/IPDA-style competition was assured in my near future, because I don't find short-barrelled intermediate cartridge caliber rifles particularly pleasant to shoot.

A note for CocoMelon - you're clear that it's only really the milsurp stuff that's corrosive and steel core, right? The S&B, PRVI PPU and PMC Bronze 7.62x39 is non-corrosive. Basically Norinco stuff and milsurp is corrosive, to the best of my knowledge [EDIT: I apparently am misinformed that red box is corrosive. It is still steel core, but not corrosive]. Milsurp 7.62 is about $0.40 to $0.60/round, and non-corrosive is around $1.30 to $1.50/round.
 
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Mac - I was under the impression that norinco red box(cabelas special for $11.99) and Ruag or Raug white box are both non corrosive. I thought corrosive was generally spam cans or wooden boxes and yes aware of the prices of the good stuff. Hence the contemplation of the x39 round though it is what I want.
 
CocoMelon said:
Mac - I was under the impression that norinco red box(cabelas special for $11.99) and Ruag or Raug white box are both non corrosive. I thought corrosive was generally spam cans or wooden boxes and yes aware of the prices of the good stuff. Hence the contemplation of the x39 round though it is what I want.
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I had remembered reading in some thread that red box was corrosive, but more recent replies have refuted that and confirmed non-corrosive, so I stand corrected.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...rinco-7-62x39mm-122gr-FMJ-20rds-red-box/page2

So, the red box may not be corrosive, but the people at my range swear up and down that red box Norinco is steel core, which I can't shoot at my range.

The RUAG is apparently also non-corrosive, but I've only seen it at around $1.20/round or so recently, so it's not much of a savings over the $1.30-1.50/round for PMC/S&B and PRVI. I mean, 8-15% saving isn't nothing either, so good that you mention it. Unrelated - TIL that the RUAG brand is being phased out and "Ammotec" is replacing it.
 
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