Hello, I recently got my pal and an enfield is high on my list of guns to buy. I would prefer an un-bubba'd example of course but unless I find a good deal on one the price is a bit of an obstacle. Other than sights, is there any reason to prefer a no1 or no4 sporter? Is accuracy typically better with one or the other? I know the basics as far as bore condition and intact charger bridge etc., but outside of that I'm as green as they come. Any input or pro tips for things to look for are greatly appreciated. Thanks
No1 or No4 sporter
- Thread starter CalgaryCanuck
- Start date
For sporters...a no4 is probably better for accuracy if your just buying cheapies. Parker hale sporters, or the like, probably no1 or no4 will suit you fine.
In terms of sights? I always seem to shoot better with my no1s. I like good ole leaf sights.
In terms of sights? I always seem to shoot better with my no1s. I like good ole leaf sights.
- Location
- WMU247 near Edmonton
a No1 sporter is going to be lighter and unlikely that the barrel has been cut
a No4 will have a heavier barrel and will likely be cut, and it may need to have the crown redone
now a No1 may have a lot more use but it will have a 5 groove barrel where a No4 can have 2 4 5 or even 6 groove barrels with 2 groove being very common.
There is also more variability in the No4, with the later Mk2 triggers you get the No4 MkI/2 and MkI/3 which are better triggers then the No1 but the wood from a MkI* and MkI/3 will not fit the MkI, MkI/2, Mk2 without needing to cut out for the bolt release.
a nicely sporterized No1MkIII or a commercial BSA can be very nice as sporters
a No4 will have a heavier barrel and will likely be cut, and it may need to have the crown redone
now a No1 may have a lot more use but it will have a 5 groove barrel where a No4 can have 2 4 5 or even 6 groove barrels with 2 groove being very common.
There is also more variability in the No4, with the later Mk2 triggers you get the No4 MkI/2 and MkI/3 which are better triggers then the No1 but the wood from a MkI* and MkI/3 will not fit the MkI, MkI/2, Mk2 without needing to cut out for the bolt release.
a nicely sporterized No1MkIII or a commercial BSA can be very nice as sporters
CC, you need to look at the rifles, online or up close and personal, to know what makes one better for your purposes than the other.
The first thing you need to look at is the throat and bore condition. Many of these rifles were commercially sporterised from NOS rifles, many were converted by Bubba with lackluster results and many were shot with "corrosive ammunition" and not properly cleaned afterwards, which left the bores badly pitted or corroded.
If you come across a rifle which has a very dirty bore and you can't see the metal, pass on it. It's very easy to pick one up with "frosty, pitted, corroded bores" which are covered up by the fouling.
If the deal is too good to be true, be wary.
Which sight system do you prefer? Diopter or Tangental? Some folks just can't get used to the Diopter type, or won't/can't learn how to use them
Now, you need to look at the bedding, which usually isn't an option. There is one test which is quite easy to do, squeeze the forestock at the end or wiggle it up and down to see if you can feel any play at the receiver. If it's moving around, accuracy won't be good until its bedding issues have been addressed.
No 4 rifles are a bit more prone to such issues than No 1 rifles if the No 1 rifle still retains its forearm bedding ring/screw/spacer.
These rifles were designed to have appx 6 pounds of upward pressure, four inches back from the muzzle. When the fore-end tips are cut off, there is no longer any pressure applied. This may or may not have an effect on accuracy. If the bedding is very tight, you can usually get away with it.
You're going to get a lot of "headspace" comments. These rifles were all purposely manufactured with "generous" chambers and headspace so they would be able to load and fire slightly dented, dirty, or slightly out-of-spec ammo. The very odd one will have a "tight" chamber but they're unicorns.
Check the stock line for rust pits. Some of these rifles will be deeply pitted below the stock line.
The finish may be worn but not affect function or accuracy. Most of the rifles we see were Factory Thorough Repaired somewhere along the way to being surplussed.
Expect to see what most would consider excessive case expansion after firing. It's normal.
One last thing, these rifles were considered to be acceptably accurate if they shot FOUR INCH (9cm) groups, with issue ammunition, at 100 YDS.
Check the safeties to make sure they work. Check the magazine to make sure the floor plate and spring are functional and the bullet retaining ears are still there or not visibly damaged. Magazines are expensive to replace.
This should get you started, so you have an idea of what to look for.
I no longer purchase any mark of 303 British rifles online. Bubba has had to much of a hand on many of them, and I end up with "parts guns" which are often worth less than what I paid.
The first thing you need to look at is the throat and bore condition. Many of these rifles were commercially sporterised from NOS rifles, many were converted by Bubba with lackluster results and many were shot with "corrosive ammunition" and not properly cleaned afterwards, which left the bores badly pitted or corroded.
If you come across a rifle which has a very dirty bore and you can't see the metal, pass on it. It's very easy to pick one up with "frosty, pitted, corroded bores" which are covered up by the fouling.
If the deal is too good to be true, be wary.
Which sight system do you prefer? Diopter or Tangental? Some folks just can't get used to the Diopter type, or won't/can't learn how to use them
Now, you need to look at the bedding, which usually isn't an option. There is one test which is quite easy to do, squeeze the forestock at the end or wiggle it up and down to see if you can feel any play at the receiver. If it's moving around, accuracy won't be good until its bedding issues have been addressed.
No 4 rifles are a bit more prone to such issues than No 1 rifles if the No 1 rifle still retains its forearm bedding ring/screw/spacer.
These rifles were designed to have appx 6 pounds of upward pressure, four inches back from the muzzle. When the fore-end tips are cut off, there is no longer any pressure applied. This may or may not have an effect on accuracy. If the bedding is very tight, you can usually get away with it.
You're going to get a lot of "headspace" comments. These rifles were all purposely manufactured with "generous" chambers and headspace so they would be able to load and fire slightly dented, dirty, or slightly out-of-spec ammo. The very odd one will have a "tight" chamber but they're unicorns.
Check the stock line for rust pits. Some of these rifles will be deeply pitted below the stock line.
The finish may be worn but not affect function or accuracy. Most of the rifles we see were Factory Thorough Repaired somewhere along the way to being surplussed.
Expect to see what most would consider excessive case expansion after firing. It's normal.
One last thing, these rifles were considered to be acceptably accurate if they shot FOUR INCH (9cm) groups, with issue ammunition, at 100 YDS.
Check the safeties to make sure they work. Check the magazine to make sure the floor plate and spring are functional and the bullet retaining ears are still there or not visibly damaged. Magazines are expensive to replace.
This should get you started, so you have an idea of what to look for.
I no longer purchase any mark of 303 British rifles online. Bubba has had to much of a hand on many of them, and I end up with "parts guns" which are often worth less than what I paid.
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
You should acquire one of each, they both are worth owning. I always liked the sights on the No.1 over the No.4, now that I’ve been shooting a peep a bit more it’s growing on me. If you already like the Lee Enfield you will inevitably want both examples.
It's not worth doing. IMHO.
That rear sight is just too high and you would have to raise the front sight accordingly.
I'm gonna chop the barrel so a new front sight will be required either way. Some bubba took a grinder and drill to it previously, it's already ####ed up so I'm gonna keep messing with it.
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
Grab one of these for $40, it attaches to the rear sight leaf.
https://www.magwedge.com/product/lee-enfield-raveneye-peep-sight/
Thank you for the detailed writeup, that is hugely helpful.
And thanks to everyone else for their recommendations and help as well
