Bear defense ammo

Jdiep

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Heyo,

Any recommendations for what 12 slugs for bear defense?

I have a 12ga hatsan defender 14". I will of course cycle it at the range to make sure there aren't any issues, but is that shotgun reliable enough? I thought it would be since it's a pump, but just read another thread saying avoid Turkish shotguns.
 
Some folks swear by the brenneke black magic slugs, but I'm going to guess at bear defence ranges ANY slug will have serious punch!

WRT shotguns from Turkey, keep in mind that major manufacturers like Winchester now have some of their lines made over there... The SXP comes to mind...

And, we've had two Chinese made Dominion Grizzly shotguns, 12ga & 20ga for years & years. They just keep working without fail...

Add on top of that a little twist... I've recently become a fan of the take down lever rifles & set two Chiappas up as bear guns. One is 44 Mag & one is 45-70 and both are set up with Fenix TK16 3100 lumen flashlights using Fenix ALG-15 Offset Picatinny Rail Mounts...

Cheers
Jay
 
Some folks swear by the brenneke black magic slugs, but I'm going to guess at bear defence ranges ANY slug will have serious punch!

WRT shotguns from Turkey, keep in mind that major manufacturers like Winchester now have some of their lines made over there... The SXP comes to mind...

And, we've had two Chinese made Dominion Grizzly shotguns, 12ga & 20ga for years & years. They just keep working without fail...

Add on top of that a little twist... I've recently become a fan of the take down lever rifles & set two Chiappas up as bear guns. One is 44 Mag & one is 45-70 and both are set up with Fenix TK16 3100 lumen flashlights using Fenix ALG-15 Offset Picatinny Rail Mounts...

Cheers
Jay

Yea I'm picking up a 44 mag, wasn't sure if that was a bit undersized, I don't reload so no to the 45-70. Was looking for a short barrel 44 mag lever too!
 
Here's our 2 Grizzly shotguns which have been 100% reliable with slugs & buckshot since they were bought from CanadaAmmo back in the day.

Cheers
Jay

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You have a couple of choices for slugs ..... have a look at this and decide for yourself .....

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...0-Unofficial-12ga-Slug-Penetration-Comparison

such a great resource, very much appreciated that effort and documentation!

I just picked up a mossberg 940 pro turkey 18.5" to set up for hunting, camp, etc., I took 1/2" spacer out for just over 13" lop handiness and it's 7.0 lbs so pretty handy, now 38-39" oal depending if flush choke or Carlson extended, 5-shots as fast as you can pull the trigger, 4.5 lb trigger, it's a sweet little multi-purpose rig, and just finally got to shoot it on weekend, group tested the challenger slugs at 40 yards with Carlson IC,M,F extended chokes....the IC was essentially ragged hole or very tight little triangles for 3 shot groups. And by the recoil and the path left behind the target and into the hillside when done it does look and feel like anything will be leaking very bad if hit with one of these things.

And accuracy/power would likely be plenty to take deer to 100. using holosun eps green mrs on mine with just the 32 moa circle only reticle, if that circle is all on fur....it's go time lol. If a deer fills about half of it then it's near 100 yards. Have some range finding abilities with that reticle.

Anyway I vote challenger slugs. Sounds like they out penetrate brenekie and truball deep penetrators which would round out my top 3 defence/hunting choices from research. You can find the challenger most places, even Canadian tire. Blue/yellow box with a buck on the front, it will say 1610 fps on it somewhere.

Some notes I kept about slugs and killing. The treadwell grizzly killed at full charge by brenekke, one guy shot a smaller buffalo at 80 yards with brenekke, another guy shot a big bull moose with foster slugs no prob, so the challenger slugs should be about as good a choice as one could find for penetration and power.

Of note, they still grouped well out of mod and full chokes in the mossberg but just got noticeably tighter from the IC choke. I also shot them in my old mans 28" full choke old Beretta a-301 and they grouped well enough at 40, 5 shots went into 4 holes, max. about 5 1/4" but 4 of them in about 3.5" ctc. So I could hunt either gun...but the mossberg IC combo has the entire group inside 3" not just ctc. like the Beretta groups.
 
In my tests shooting in to green aspen blocks Challenger deer slugs had the most penetration. I've never shot a bear with them. I did shoot a 4 year old mule deer with 20 gauge Challenger deer slugs and was impressed. My shot was slightly too for forward and a little low. Smashed through both front leg bones and the lower part of the brisket where the bone is the heaviest. After penetrating the deer it went thought a 4" dry fir then into the hillside.
 
I just mathed the recoil energy of those challenger slugs in my 7 lb 940 lol...the low end would be 33 ft/lbs assuming it was only 1510 fps from the shorter barrel instead of 1610 fps. Up to 37 ft/lbs. A 10.5 lb 300 weatherby 180 gr would be around 29 ft/lbs. No wonder I was feeling that session. And the hillside behind the target after was impressive. Thing mows a lot of green and earth lol.

Now maybe it’s a little less due to it being a gas semi-auto. This would be way less fun from a pump lol.

Not sure how much less the semi auto is than pump? Anyone care to guess? A percentage perhaps?

Quick search shows you face same recoil regardless just less felt recoil due to some spreading of the pulse through the action cycling. I’ll take that! She was a loud round mound of sound I tell ya, I think I’ll call her Rita
 
My buckshot/ slug test was using 5 gallon metal oil pails filled with water at 50feet. Buckshot made 6 or 7 holes straight through, nothing impressive happened. Slug on the other hand blew the lid and bottom off and split the the seem open down the side. Same thing shooting 4 liter paint cans filled with water and the lids on tight. Nothing eviscerates em faster, lids go 30+ feet in the air.
 
Heyo,

Any recommendations for what 12 slugs for bear defense?

I have a 12ga hatsan defender 14". I will of course cycle it at the range to make sure there aren't any issues, but is that shotgun reliable enough? I thought it would be since it's a pump, but just read another thread saying avoid Turkish shotguns.

I bought one for my wife and it suffers from light primer strikes with some ammo. Score low recoil slugs and buckshot especially. Unfortunately by the time we found out the warranty period was over. The firing pin return spring is very stiff and a light one helps with some ammo but it hasn't solved the problem. A heavier hammer spring is possibly needed. Hopefully yours doesn't have this issue.

I've also found that it's kind of easy to have a shell pop out of the mag tube if you don't push it in until it positively clicks when loading. When you release the carrier (the spring loaded loading gate) It then pops out of the mag onto the carrier. When you try to cycle the action another shell is released from the mag, pinching the first shell and binding up the action. I have a Churchill pump that does not do this.

As for slugs, Challenger Magnum 1 1/8oz go 1,450fps out my 15" barrel. They have a semi-pointed nose, they're a hard alloy, barely deform and penetrate well. They're my first choice in the bush if I have the 12 gauge with me. For lower recoil try Federal truball deep penetrators. Penetration is still good, they're made of a harder alloy as well and the ball in the cavity helps prevent them flattening too much on impact. They're 485 grains with the plastic ball, which stays in the slug on impact. They're quite a bit slower out of the 15" barrel at around 1,230fps.

Good luck and whatever gun you end up using in the bush, make sure you practice!
 
Some folks swear by the brenneke black magic slugs, but I'm going to guess at bear defence ranges ANY slug will have serious punch!

WRT shotguns from Turkey, keep in mind that major manufacturers like Winchester now have some of their lines made over there... The SXP comes to mind...

And, we've had two Chinese made Dominion Grizzly shotguns, 12ga & 20ga for years & years. They just keep working without fail...

Add on top of that a little twist... I've recently become a fan of the take down lever rifles & set two Chiappas up as bear guns. One is 44 Mag & one is 45-70 and both are set up with Fenix TK16 3100 lumen flashlights using Fenix ALG-15 Offset Picatinny Rail Mounts...

Cheers
Jay

Massive deformation, but only 14.5" of penetration with winchester superX slug:
[video=youtube_share;FKge3FF0Hx4]https://youtu.be/FKge3FF0Hx4?si=s20jbVNJIz6VLK5W[/video]

Virtually no deformation, with 32.5" of penetration with Federal Truball Deep Penetrator:
[video=youtube_share;zAq5jNBrRbw]https://youtu.be/zAq5jNBrRbw?si=plEI2buWpZmGEQVD[/video]

I don't know if I have seen a better comparison of the differences between a slug that is meant to kill deer vs penetrate. I can certainly see why some people would swear by slugs like the Brenneke black magic, I'm sold with that kind of result.
 
I don't know if I have seen a better comparison of the differences between a slug that is meant to kill deer vs penetrate. I can certainly see why some people would swear by slugs like the Brenneke black magic, I'm sold with that kind of result.

^ Thank you for that post & video links Suther, very informative!
 
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