Comp for 9mm pcc

icecold

icecold

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Hi folks.

Just curious if people run a comp on PCC’s, and if so where to buy. I have found several muzzle brakes, but Im thinking thats not the way to go. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks
 
icecold said:
...Just curious if people run a comp on PCC’s, ...
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I think it's well established that [EDIT: 18.5" barrel] PCCs don't produce enough gas at the muzzle to make a compensator work as a compensator. What they actually do, however, is add weight right at the muzzle. This changes the balance of the gun, dampens the overall recoil impulse, and passively reduces muzzle climb on recoil. A muzzle brake does the same. You can achieve the same effect by duct taping a few lead wheel weights the bottom of the barrel, and this doesn't add useless length to the rifle.
 
Another props for the DaVinci Diesel. Works very well on mine.
The shorter your barrel is, the more a comp will help. On my 8 inch it makes a significant difference. You're trying to limit muzzle rise, not recoil. So a muzzle break isn't really the right device. You can manage recoil on a PCC like the FX9 with buffer weight.
 
alpining said:
I think it's well established that PCCs don't produce enough gas at the muzzle to make a compensator work as a compensator. What they actually do, however, is add weight right at the muzzle. This changes the balance of the gun, dampens the overall recoil impulse, and passively reduces muzzle climb on recoil. A muzzle brake does the same. You can achieve the same effect by duct taping a few lead wheel weights the bottom of the barrel, and this doesn't add useless length to the rifle.
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well, there's a lot of 'depends' in that statement. my 7" pcc totally works with a comp. depends on barrel length. my 18.6" pcc doesn't need a comp for recoil management but does to get enough sound to the shot timer to register. depends on use. the amount of recoil and efficacy of the comp also varies with what i am shooting - +p, or light load gamer rounds. depends on what you are shooting.
 
Just picked up a S&W FPC and plan on shooting lead 124gr out of it. Anyone know if lead will would foul up a brake? My S&W 41 7” barrel with brake leads up like a mofo.
 
Ok, so using an 18.6 barrel no need for comp. I have just used about 50 rounds through my FX9 18.6 barrel. I don’t really feel much recoil at the muzzle , but I was thinking of all the possibilities of taming everything down.
 
I use the Tenden Kross Pro on my FX9 10" and on my Reven9 18.5". The Comps only direct the gasses upwards at an angle. At +135PF for IDPA PCC Division neither carbine rise. The Comp does not reduce what little recoil the 9MM exhibits but they do reduce muzzle jump to the point both carbines shoot dead flat. Because they direct the gasses off at an angle the gasses do not affect your sight picture at all. At $65.US they are a good buy IMHO.

Take Care

Bob
ps The comp works well on my 18.5" barrel
 
alpining said:
I think it's well established that PCCs don't produce enough gas at the muzzle to make a compensator work as a compensator. What they actually do, however, is add weight right at the muzzle. This changes the balance of the gun, dampens the overall recoil impulse, and passively reduces muzzle climb on recoil. A muzzle brake does the same. You can achieve the same effect by duct taping a few lead wheel weights the bottom of the barrel, and this doesn't add useless length to the rifle.
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Not true. Some compensators work to help reduce dot bounce. I run one on my competition rifles (an 18.7" and a 16.1" barrel) and by using hotter ammo the comp helps with dot bounce. It's physics... Might not help a ton but it does help a bit, and if that makes for a faster split then yup it works!
 
icecold said:
Ok, so using an 18.6 barrel no need for comp. I have just used about 50 rounds through my FX9 18.6 barrel. I don’t really feel much recoil at the muzzle , but I was thinking of all the possibilities of taming everything down.
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Comps don't eliminate recoil, that's what the recoil buffer system is for. Blowback9.com has broken the code on how to mitigate the felt recoil. As mentioned above, a compensator helps prevent muzzle rise which then makes follow up shots easier. As Bob said, they direct the gasses up to force the barrel down a bit keeping it flat and eliminating dot bounce. My FX9 has no muzzle movement at all with the DaVinci shooting FH munitions 124grn.
So much so that 5 other club members have now bought them because it just works.

That's why National Champ Taylor Reich uses onr and 90% of ipsc/uspda PCC shooters use them. If you want to get the full effect from them load your own ammo and use slower burning powder the will maximize the gas build up, hence making the comp work even better. Caveat to that is, if you load too hot it can push the barrel down too much. JP Precision has a great video about it and why shooting pistol loads in a PCC can be a real bad thing.
 
AlphaCharlieDelta said:
Not true. Some compensators work to help reduce dot bounce. I run one on my competition rifles (an 18.7" and a 16.1" barrel) and by using hotter ammo the comp helps with dot bounce. It's physics... ...
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Try taking the comp off and attaching an equivalent weight at the muzzle, you might find the effect is the same.
 
alpining said:
Try taking the comp off and attaching an equivalent weight at the muzzle, you might find the effect is the same.
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You might but you won't. I say that, with one provision. There are Comps and there are Comps. My Ravon9 came with Lochart's Comp. Their Comp directs most of the gas to the sides with only two small vents directong gases upwards. It looks cool on the gun but that is about it.
The TK design only directs the gas upwards. John V. Has one from Europe that has two vents both directing gas upwards at 90 degrees. The design works albeit the gas does affect the view somewhat when using irons or his red dot.

Your point regarding lower pressure at 18" vs 10"s is valid but my experience of one, is the effect is not significantly less to negate using a Comp. Both of my carbines use the same TK mount and both guns now shoot flat.

Full disclosure they still wave around like a flag on a dingy but that likely reflects my skill level using a Carbine something my ego is not yet ready to accept.

Take Care
Bob
 
Again Im quoting Bob...
"The TK design only directs the gas upwards. John V. Has one from Europe that has two vents both directing gas upwards at 90 degrees. The design works albeit the gas does affect the view somewhat when using irons or his red dot"
I have a TK and swapped it to the DaVinci. I have noticed a difference in effectiveness between the two in muzzle rise mitigation, but I have not noticed and obstruction of my 510c when using the big dual ported straight up DaVinci.
I recommend both the TK and the DaVinci, with the edge to the Davinci. MBX makes a chonking three port straight up pcc comp but I've yet to try that one, pretty happy with the effects of the Davinci on my 16.1 FX9.
Comps, like stocks, grips, etc are a personal preference kind of thing. If it works for you, you will probably shoot better...

PEW PEW PEW... PCC is NOT a crime!
 
I'm no engineer, but I have been called nerdy. With fairly typical 9mm ammunition an 18.5 inch barrel should have a muzzle pressure of around 485 PSI. The same load in an 8 inch barrel should produce around 1121 PSI, a 4 inch barrel should produce around 2243 PSI. So the difference is significant depending on barrel length. Now how that translates into managing muzzle rise by directed some gas upwards, I have no math for that.
 
well, with pistols the term is muzzle flip. associated with the fact that the barrel ('bore axis') is higher than the grip (or in the case of a pcc, the line from your shoulder to where the stock connects to the firearm). the recoil of the firearm creates a lever that tries to rotate the gun around the grip/stock. this is made worse by any reciprocating mass - bolt moving backwards, slide moving backwards. hence one of the reasons the shadow is such a popular race gun - the slide is much less than a 1911 or equivalent.

in the case of a pcc, the amount of flip you get will be related to your action type (blowback will have a lot more reciprocating mass than a locking type) and stock type - the ar buffer tube arrangement does a really good job of aligning the stock with the bore axis (but requires a raised sight to compensate and holdover on close targets). something like the ruger pc9 has the stock lower than the bore axis and will have more flip.

so, the efficacy of your comp is going to depend on your gun.
 
Well I'm not an engineer but I can read. I also know the issue of high bore axis has little to do with the recoil of a handgun cuz and engineer on the Cast Bullet forum explained the issue. I won't try to Para phrase his explanation but it starts with the fact the reciprocation slide on a pistol transfers energy to the frame when it strikes the slide stop. He explains that marketing types use the high bore axis as a crutchl knowing most ofus would fall asleep trying to understand the physics involved. The high bore axis idea works for CZ owners but not so much for SIg or those who make the 1911's.
If there is a physics teacher on the forum who wants to explain the concept of recoil pick up your pen.

Take Care

Bob
 
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