If you were buying your first hunting rifle.....
- Thread starter Bksrt8
- Start date
I noticed that 30-30 barely made it into the discussion, is it such an outdated round that nobody uses it anymore? My grandfather had a savage 340 in 30-30 (which I'm trying to find so I can hopefully buy it back) as far as I know he never actually hunted with it but he said it was a popular choice of hunting calibre back in the early 50s when he bought it. Normally 30 30 is a lever action round but there is the ballistic tip rounds if you can find them, maybe that's part of the issue these days, most people seem to hunt with bolt actions and 30 30 bolt action ammo isn't very common?
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
.30-30 is only outdated on the internet, it remains one of the most sensible deer and black bear freezing filling cartridges ever devised. There’s a reason everyone in the hunting forum has heard its name. It isn’t the best at anything, but it’s very good at many things, and is enough without excess.
30/06, 308, 7mm, 270.
Find the gun you want in one of those calibers and go from there.
Not enough difference to make a difference.
You should be able to find ammo for all those in NE ON.
Gun fit and something you like is more important.
Find the gun you want in one of those calibers and go from there.
Not enough difference to make a difference.
You should be able to find ammo for all those in NE ON.
Gun fit and something you like is more important.
TSherback
CGN Regular
I would not start with a 3006 or 300win mag. These two will go a long way to help you develop a flinch. 308, 270, 6.5 are much better options.
When you first get your rifle you may want to shoot quite a bit to help develop your skills and a 3006 will be tough to send 20 or 30 rounds down range at a sitting, ask me how I know.
slinkylegs
Regular
- Location
- Hudson Bay, SK
I agree. I started with a 270, went to the 308 for a number of years, and now have a 6.5x55. I'd be confident and happy with any of the guns for anything up to and including moose. Are there better calibers for the big critters? Absolutely, but with good shot placement and quality bullets, I wouldn't feel inadequately armed. The 308 would probably be my suggestion for a first time caliber if you want to hunt bigger game
This is where I would start. Ruger American gen2 Standard
And 6.5 Grendel with factory Hornady Black 123gr eld-m. Order a case or two at a time and stay ahead of it. Ammo supply is cyclical in availability and pricing so when it’s around you buy enough to go 3 years just in case. The Grendel is the most you can do with 30gr of powder and you’ll shootin it well and it will be fun to shoot. The 308 will not be as fun. Get a 308 down the road. We have used the Grendel exclusively for 6 seasons and 7 species of big game in Alberta to 420 yards and it’s been awesome, kids have shot very well, mostly dead on the spot or very short 15 yard like recoveries. With a bit of weight in the rifle you get to see a lot in the scope while shooting and recover the sight picture so much quicker also. Grendel 123gr is essentially a 3/4 scale 308 running 168’s but with 50-55% less recoil. It can do 98% of the big game hunting we have in the country.
The 6.5 creedmoor would be a good pick, 6-arc, and then 308. The arc is a Grendel but 6mm and I just think you want to stay above 120gr of lead for better hunting balance. A 6.5cm with 140 eld-m match would be a top pick also but the Grendel will be more fun. I have a new 308 Tikka lite that does the 168 eldm match but it’s not as fun to shoot. It’s still nice and acceptable but no way I would start my kids on it, with a short eye relief scope or bad position it will scope you good.
Go Grendel. It’s the top 30gr powder combo hunting(big game/predator) and plinking/training/fun cartridge around imo. It’s been around awhile (2004) and many have been sold in Canada, ammo will always be available, it’s an. AR length cartridge meaning it’s also very popular in USA ensuring ammo availability and future proof cartridge. It punches way above its weight.
30-30 is 19th century interpretation of what 30 grains of powder can do (year 1895 cartridge). Let’s skip past the 20th century and get right into the 21st with the 6-Arc(2020) and Grendel(2004) which at minimum triple to quintuple the effective range of the 30-30. The versatility of the 21st century options is so much greater now.
This is in no way slamming the 30-30, what an amazing track record it has and still out there getting it done. It’s the reason the 30gr powder class is even a thing.
To the OP, more perspective.
Single digit ft/lbs recoil energy with 30gr powder class(arc/grendel) and then double digits ft/lbs recoil energy with 40+ gr powder class(308/Creedmoor).
Here’s a snap shot of recoil differences of your top 4 picks in a 7.75 lb rifle scoped, ie the ruger American gen2 standard with a Trijicon accupoint 3-9x40.
6-Arc 108gr - 8.0 ft/lbs
6.5 Grendel 123gr - 8.7 ft/lbs
6.5 Creedmoor 140gr - 13.6 ft/lbs
308 Win 168gr - 17.8 ft/lbs
This is all factory eld-m ammo compared. Standard velocity ammo only, 50 FPS subtracted for 20” barrels. For comparative purposes only.
Note a rule of thumb of 15 ft/lbs recoil as a threshold guideline where shootability starts to move up to less and less people able to shoot it well. Don’t start with the 308 imo.
Edit note, I find the 123gr Grendel feels like a .243 with 90-100 gr for recoil, you get a bit more push from the added bullet weight. You’ll notice that with light vs heavy bullets compared to what the calculators say.
Single digit ft/lbs recoil energy with 30gr powder class(arc/grendel) and then double digits ft/lbs recoil energy with 40+ gr powder class(308/Creedmoor).
Here’s a snap shot of recoil differences of your top 4 picks in a 7.75 lb rifle scoped, ie the ruger American gen2 standard with a Trijicon accupoint 3-9x40.
6-Arc 108gr - 8.0 ft/lbs
6.5 Grendel 123gr - 8.7 ft/lbs
6.5 Creedmoor 140gr - 13.6 ft/lbs
308 Win 168gr - 17.8 ft/lbs
This is all factory eld-m ammo compared. Standard velocity ammo only, 50 FPS subtracted for 20” barrels. For comparative purposes only.
Note a rule of thumb of 15 ft/lbs recoil as a threshold guideline where shootability starts to move up to less and less people able to shoot it well. Don’t start with the 308 imo.
Edit note, I find the 123gr Grendel feels like a .243 with 90-100 gr for recoil, you get a bit more push from the added bullet weight. You’ll notice that with light vs heavy bullets compared to what the calculators say.
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Can I expect my body mass to help mitigate recoil on the larger calibres? I'm 6'2 and 220(ish)lbs but is that going to even matter to someone that doesn't have much trigger time, in regards to accuracy and developing a flinch? How does one get rid of a flinch btw? It's mainly a nervous reaction before the trigger breaks that takes you off target in my experience and I've even noticed it while shooting pellet guns. I had a 2 stage trigger on one of my rifles and I've caught myself several times pulling just off my target as the trigger breaks that second notch. I'd LOVE for that to stop happening!
I have a 223/5.56 to get better at shooting, I felt like that was a good calibre to just send lead cheaply and get used to shooting. I haven't had any time or funds to go to a range as I've been out of work since September but I'm hopeful that things pick up and I can get back to doing the things I love!
Thanks again for the replies, lots of good advise and knowledge here!
I have a 223/5.56 to get better at shooting, I felt like that was a good calibre to just send lead cheaply and get used to shooting. I haven't had any time or funds to go to a range as I've been out of work since September but I'm hopeful that things pick up and I can get back to doing the things I love!
Thanks again for the replies, lots of good advise and knowledge here!
Same size but 13% BF here. It won't help when shooting prone or from a bench (especially ones that are too low for a 6'4" adult).
Standing, I could shoot all day - more mvoement can take some of that energy.
Off the bench, after 12 or so it is an issue and after a box it's really starting to take the fun out of it.
Ruger American or Tikka in 6.5 CM.
If you want/don't mind heavier, a Weatherby Vanguard ins 6.5 CM or 308
At least, if you really never see yourself reaching past 300-350 yards. There have barely been any shots here I couldn't have made with a 30-30 in a long time, but that depends on your area, hunting style etc.
Tolerance to recoil is just about all mental, not physical. Big guys can flinch, little guys can shoot big guns VERY well. Train, shoot a lot from field positions, don't pick up bad habits, be honest with yourself. You'll always shoot moderate calibers better than large calibers though. Depends what you need/want.
If you want/don't mind heavier, a Weatherby Vanguard ins 6.5 CM or 308
At least, if you really never see yourself reaching past 300-350 yards. There have barely been any shots here I couldn't have made with a 30-30 in a long time, but that depends on your area, hunting style etc.
Tolerance to recoil is just about all mental, not physical. Big guys can flinch, little guys can shoot big guns VERY well. Train, shoot a lot from field positions, don't pick up bad habits, be honest with yourself. You'll always shoot moderate calibers better than large calibers though. Depends what you need/want.
sometimes the twigs handle the recoil better, they move easier lol, no guarantees how you'll respond and yes the bench is where you'll probably feel it most
not sure where you're at but .223 not a bad starter or coyote round but just a slight big more with 6mm or 6.5mm and you're big game legal for just about everywhere, got no use for a .223 in Alberta as it's a coyote pest round only, can't double for big game, the 6-arc and 6.5 grendel can...
you'd probably do fine with 6.5 creedmoor and 140 white box hornady match eld-m for everything, hunting and plinking and matches, you would never need to buy another rifle or load and it will likely be shootable and affordable to shoot and that 140 white box match eld-m load will be readily available for a hundred years....that's probably the smartest play, go for that ruger standard or predator and Trijicon Accupoint green dot duplex or mil-dot duplex and you'd have enough for everything
Felt recoil is subjective. But IMO, yes, all other things being equal, more mass helps (even for shooting prone and from a bench). Of course you still need technique.
You have lots of great rifle/cartridge options before you get to even "medium"-recoiling rifles. Blakeyboy's numbers are good for reference, and he's probably right in the ballpark about 308 being a threshold round, recoil-wise. Personally, I don't think you should be concerned about even a 308. But I started shooting a 12ga pump when I was 12ish. Your big advantage is that your build allows you to comfortably handle and shoot a heavier rifle, with a longer barrel. But you might be just fine with a light short rifle, heavier recoil and more muzzle blast, you really can't know until you try.
The best way to get rid of a flinch is to not develop a flinch. Second best way is to get lots of practice without recoil, noise, and blast to distract you. I'd probably go down to 22LR until the flinch is completely banished, then work back up (223 is good, then hunting rifle with mild ammunition, then full power ammo). Lots of people get a flinch from muzzle blast, not recoil.
I'd suggest shooting offhand initially if you're weary of recoil, you can even sight in your rifle off a tripod standing. Also,when you're bench shooting stay upright and don't slouch over the rifle, that will help lessen the feeling of recoil.
