Canadian Sheep Hunting 101
- Thread starter Northern Shooter
- Start date
that is simply Boolsheet!!
i cannot even begin to comprehend paying that much to hunt a animal. even if i was hunting it for 365 days
If you wanna get DIY in some mountanous terrain, cost you a Plane Ticket...... New Zealand.... Himilayan tahr..... mountain goat of the South.
really do-able for less than $10k all inclusive.... rental vans, permits are free but process, plane ticket, diesel......... man o man what are you guys waiting for.
hell, ill guide yas for less than the accomodation
Interesting, tell us more please
I was planning to pick up a 6.8 Western in a lightweight rifle specifically for this trip.
AR15meister
CGN Regular
I am from Toronto 10 mins from CN Tower.
Started sheep/mountain hunting in 2017. I have killed lots of rams and goats all over the big mountains of the world. North American I have done 2 bighorn outfitter hunts.... no ram, killed a stone, killed a desert this year. Also went with my buddy and he killed a desert this year. Life member of WSF and Alberta WSF. I also spend a lot of time in the mountains walking around and checking out deserts at my winter place in AZ.
I go on one big mountain trip a year typically and then I mess around hunting ducks and grouse/woodcock with old shotguns.
PM me if you want some advice.
Some decent advice here but also lots of guys talking about non residents shouldn't be able to hunt sheep. LOL. Non Resident "Canadians" should have MORE access to sheep permits, and there are currently people working to make that happen. Not to take anything away from resident hunters, who are our brothers, but American money (and to a lesser extent Canadian money from the East) is a big part of keeping the sheep on the mountain.
Any guys who are saying that people shouldn't be allowed to hunt are being selfish and not putting the animals, the habitat and the sport first, in my opinion. Not trying to derail this guy's thread but come on boys...... sustainable harvests managed by governments working with NGO's like WSF, WSSBC, etc are the center of what we are all about.
Non Resident hunters aren't causing sheep herds to dwindle. Predator management, human encroachment, stupid governments, MOVI, etc are the culprits.
AR15meister
CGN Regular
I know the Tajik guys that manage the area he killed that ram. If you want to go there let me know.
Sounds like you've had quite a few adventures. Are you a GSCO member working towards your North American Grand Slam or World Slam? It sounds like you're halfway to the Grand Slam.
How does governments managing sustainable harvests have a bearing on resident vs non-resident hunting? From that perspective shouldn't the number of animals harvested be the only factor, not whether it was a resident or non-resident who did it?
AR15meister
CGN Regular
Agree with you totally- number of animals, regardless of who is hunting them. But the money brought in by non resident permits is huge and therefore should definitely be a part of the overall harvest numbers and solution.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The money on permits in Canada isn’t actually accurate, all my harvest royalties over six years wouldn’t even buy one pickup for a CO. For reference the harvest royalty on any species of sheep in BC is $250. There is an economic benefit however in bringing outside money into BC, but that’s not helping populations that’s purely economic.
The argument is that the NGOs focused on sheep in particular benefit the health of the populations through their programs. Those NGOs (Wild Sheep being the biggest name) are principally funded by non-resident hunters relative to the areas they operate. I know the former Canadian Wild Sheep president well, and he’s a member here. They do good, meaningful work.
This said, number one plain and simple is obvious; contiguous, undisturbed habitat. That’s the part we humans have the hardest time leaving alone.
The argument is that the NGOs focused on sheep in particular benefit the health of the populations through their programs. Those NGOs (Wild Sheep being the biggest name) are principally funded by non-resident hunters relative to the areas they operate. I know the former Canadian Wild Sheep president well, and he’s a member here. They do good, meaningful work.
This said, number one plain and simple is obvious; contiguous, undisturbed habitat. That’s the part we humans have the hardest time leaving alone.
AR15meister
CGN Regular
Not a member of GSCO. The idea of being recognized for hunting animals publicly hasn't been at the forefront for me personally at this time. I just like to ride horses, see nice vistas and eat smokies and beans in the mountains. Sheep hunting provides all of that.
That said I was like the original poster once just a 33 year old guy who loved to hunt, loved to travel on adventures and loved to hike. International mountain hunting connected those dots for me but it took me a while to "figure it out". Hence why I offered to give some guidance. Personally if I was the OP I would try and hunt Asia and Europe. Spectacular big game hunts over there for a fraction of the cost of North America. I would also book a Dall sheep hunt for 3-4 years out and pay it off slowly but lock in my price. I am no expert but have definitely been some places and know a few things about the game now (specifically with worldwide outfitter hunts).
I am pursuing the grand slam of north American sheep and then likely the world slam of wild sheep. I have 2 north American rams currently (desert and stone) but been on 4 hunts. Did a rocky hunt in BC and AB. Rocky Bighorns have been tough, as many here know. I am going on either a Dall or a Bighorn hunt this year. I have a Dall booked for September 2024 but just got an opportunity to also go out on an outfitted bighorn hunt in Alberta. Not sure if wife or finances are good for 2. Lots of time away from kids and wife and business. I also just partially leased a famous duck marsh in southern Ontario so have lots to do this fall!
AR15meister
CGN Regular
well said. One only needs to attend a WSF convention and you can really learn about the amount of passion and hard work that people put in. And almost all of the WSF Alberta guys are resident hunters but they all support the ability to hunt both inter provincially and internationally. Personally I am a firm believer that a moose in Ontario is just as much an Albertan's as a sheep in BC is mine. We are Canadians. I realize not all share this opinion and that is OK.
Ultimately Ardent is correct in that undisturbed habitat is number one. The thing he didn't say is that so much of the habitat IS disturbed and therefore man has to be actively involved in managing it because we are the ones who changed it. For example, even highways and rural roads have given wolves access to places they formerly couldn't access- like wolf super highways- so wolves must be controlled, stuff like that.
doesn't just apply to the wild sheep.
In BC license and tag fees mostly goes to general revenue, only a very small portion is earmarked specifically for management purposes, and if what I'm looking at is correct the royalty fee for a non-resident harvesting a sheep is only $250. (edit: Confirmed by Ardent above.) From what I can tell only a very small portion of the money spent on a non-resident guided sheep hunt is actually going back to the govt, something in the ballpark of $1000 between license fee, tag fee, and royalty if you are successful?
Of course any money spent in BC is going to be taxed - income taxes on it when it gets paid out to the guides employees, sales tax on the hunts and related services, etc and that might be enough to make it worthwhile, but we're not like a lot of states where tag fees are directly tied to funding for the fish/wildlife departments.
AR15meister
CGN Regular
I understand. My point was that if non residents couldn't hunt or spend time in the mountains the funding for things like MOVI research, the premier tag, things like that would be gone.
Most of the tag money goes into general revenue I think....such bull####.
I also think that if they charged more for non resident Canadians to hunt (and allowed them in the first place) but allowed draw tags and put the money directly into sheep conservation it would make sense but governments rarely make sense.
I doubt anyone from AB or Ontario who would apply for a Stone sheep license would balk at a 5-10k tag price.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
It was very clear to me when dealing with the BC government as an outfitter they were only interested in the funds we were able to bring into the province’s economy. There is a distinct value to that which is recognized at the government level, which is why non-resident hunting continues to be permitted in BC despite its unpopularity with the general population.
I will differ from AR15’s view that a moose in someone else’s province and backyard is as much mine to take as is a ram, Billy, boar or bull here in my home province. I feel it’s obvious that residents should have the first and last tag issued for the province they hunt, live in, and pay taxes in. If there are enough animals to support non-resident hunting past that, or as in my territory’s case zero resident interest, then by all means on the non-residents. But to open marquee species everyone wants to the entire country equally isn’t fair to the resident hunters, who spend their lives in the province and many of whom have been hunting these areas and animals all their lives. In short, not all areas are created equal in hunting, and it’s not an even exchange.
There is a balance to be struck, and by law of supply and demand there has to be a cost for wanting something of limited supply, that many people want. Usually paying the money for a guided hunt makes more sense than moving your entire life, but if it’s your passion move to BC, the NWT or the Yukon, pay the taxes, and chase the dream. I can respect that 100%. I can’t support Canada wide transfer of tags, that’d be like saying I want my share of whatever other natural resource only locally available in isolated regions. If that was my passion, I’d move up there and pursue it. Or accept the cost.
I will differ from AR15’s view that a moose in someone else’s province and backyard is as much mine to take as is a ram, Billy, boar or bull here in my home province. I feel it’s obvious that residents should have the first and last tag issued for the province they hunt, live in, and pay taxes in. If there are enough animals to support non-resident hunting past that, or as in my territory’s case zero resident interest, then by all means on the non-residents. But to open marquee species everyone wants to the entire country equally isn’t fair to the resident hunters, who spend their lives in the province and many of whom have been hunting these areas and animals all their lives. In short, not all areas are created equal in hunting, and it’s not an even exchange.
There is a balance to be struck, and by law of supply and demand there has to be a cost for wanting something of limited supply, that many people want. Usually paying the money for a guided hunt makes more sense than moving your entire life, but if it’s your passion move to BC, the NWT or the Yukon, pay the taxes, and chase the dream. I can respect that 100%. I can’t support Canada wide transfer of tags, that’d be like saying I want my share of whatever other natural resource only locally available in isolated regions. If that was my passion, I’d move up there and pursue it. Or accept the cost.
AR15meister
CGN Regular
I don't disagree with your sentiment and understand where it comes from but I do think, to use your words, a balance should be struck. Once in a lifetime tag, draw, high license fee, must use a licensed guide/outfitter, etc, etc. Similar to the American system. Not arguing for equal opportunity on parity with residents by any means. But a BC guy should be able to draw a once in a lifetime dall sheep tag in NWT and and NWT guy should be able to draw a whitetail tag in AB.
I can afford to do some of these hunts (and make it a financial priority to do so) but some serious hunters and patriotic Canadians will never get a chance. That isn't right.
If Canada was ever at war we would all die on the same battlefield regardless of where we live. I have never thought of myself as less Canadian. I love all areas of our vast and beautiful country and consider them a part of who I am as much as Ontario.
Just my respectful 2 cents.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I agree on lotteries or the like. There is always the option to move and go live it, and I know guys who have, that’s the only cheap way to do it, and is available to any Canadian.
The challenge would be you’d never see a Yukon sheep hunter headed to Manitoba for moose for instance. There would certainly be flow to the west and north though, which would reduce the Yukon fella’s opportunity at home and offer him nothing in return. At the end of the day, there are very few of these animals available for harvest, and an awful lot of people who want to hunt them. The true value of a sheep has likely been long sorted, as objectionable as it is, through the free market system.
I do support lotteries / premier’s tag auctions / raffles, that’s a system that can benefit the province or territory and share the wealth to a small degree. But it’s not going to open up sheep hunting in meaningful numbers to non-residents, nothing can or will, simply based on the incredibly small numbers of mature animals available and the demand to hunt them.
The challenge would be you’d never see a Yukon sheep hunter headed to Manitoba for moose for instance. There would certainly be flow to the west and north though, which would reduce the Yukon fella’s opportunity at home and offer him nothing in return. At the end of the day, there are very few of these animals available for harvest, and an awful lot of people who want to hunt them. The true value of a sheep has likely been long sorted, as objectionable as it is, through the free market system.
I do support lotteries / premier’s tag auctions / raffles, that’s a system that can benefit the province or territory and share the wealth to a small degree. But it’s not going to open up sheep hunting in meaningful numbers to non-residents, nothing can or will, simply based on the incredibly small numbers of mature animals available and the demand to hunt them.
I would like to complete the North American "Super 10" which would include a native sheep. At this point it's looking like a Dall in Alaska is the most affordable option, far less than the Canadian hunts.
I would also like to pursue some mountain game across Europe and Asia including Alpine Mouflon, Chamois, Himalayan Tahr and an Ibex of some sort, either Spanish or Mid-Asian.
All of the above could likely be hunted for less cost than a BC Stone Sheep hunt.
