Primers for Ball Powder

[Ganderite]

The loading manuals often specify magnum primers for ball powder. This is because ball powders tend to have more deterrent coating and are therefore harder to ignite.

The ignition problem is most noticeable with lighter bullets and milder charges of powder. With light bullets I have encountered 90% click-bangs in a 8x57 and 10% clicks in a 223.

One good practice is to use increased neck tension when loading ball powder. And, as the books says, use a magnum primer.

I am about to load 10,000 rounds of 223 ammo with ball powder under a 62 gr bullet. I thought it would be prudent to test the primers on hand, first.

The primer I want to use is the Ginex small pistol primer. They are cheap. From all the striker pistol misfires, I know they have a tough cup, and won't pierce in the rifle (the way a regular small pistol rimer would).

Another pistol primer I test is the Remington 5 1/2. This is there magnum pistol primer - tough cup.

The logical primer to use is the Winchester small rifle. The Winchester rimers are hot - made for ball powder.

For comparison puposes, I also tested the CCI BenchRest and the CCI Magnum.

I shot 5 of each in two different rifles. A red Sportco with a 30" barrel and a Tika with a 20".

The Ginex had terrible Extreme Spread and Standard Deviation 100-33 and 145-51

The CCI Magnum had excellent ES and SD 27-9 and 29-12

 

[Apex998]

It would be interesting to try the Ginex SRP's in the mix too as they are fairly inexpensive as well. Not really any or much difference in price to the Ginex SPP.

Nonetheless this is an interesting comparison

 

[Ganderite]

Hmmm. Looking at hose targets makes me wonder about the accuracy of the Tika. I will have do more with it.

This test was based on what I have on hand. I don't have 10000 Ginex small rifle. If I did, that is probably what I would use. The shooting is only at 300 yards.

If nothing else, this tests suggest that one should try a couple different primers when load developing.

 

[boxhitch]

and maybe not all ball powders are created equal either
We have been having good luck with regular srp's with CFR223 in .223's
but as you say, maybe more testing could bring different results

 

[dead meat]

I see some large differences in velocity in some of those groups, as much as 148fps in 2 loads. 2988 vs 2840, different rifles but still that is a huge difference. I was trying a safe 22-250 load with different makes of primers when i had one blow out and take the ejector with it.

 

[mimile]

If nothing else, this tests suggest that one should try a couple different primers when load developing.

That's quite appropriate Ganderite. I usually try to find a good powder charge with a ladder test. Then unless I get the accuray I want with the tested primer, I will try other primers. I once tried 150 grains in a 270 win with IMR 7828 and despite having an ES of 20 and a SD of 8, I could not have a group less than 1.8 with different COLs. Changing the primer immediately brought the group to 0.5.

 

[Ganderite]

and maybe not all ball powders are created equal either
We have been having good luck with regular srp's with CFR223 in .223's
but as you say, maybe more testing could bring different results

The fact that something works is not proof that the load is a good one. If you are making ammo for hunting or competition you want ammo that is 100% reliable.

I used to make ammo for serious competition and for big game hunts that were important to me. I would try to test it for reliability.

For example, when making target ammo, you want to be sure you are not too close to a maximum load. I would take my match load (say 46.5 gr) and try it with 0.5gr more. If it still worked ok (no hard extraction or huge groups) then I knew I had a load that would work if the big match was shot on a very hot day.

By the way, if you are faced with a very hot day and troublesome ammo, there are a couple things you can do. Take the ammo to the range in a small cooler with a bottle of frozen water. If the problem develops on the line, take your bolt lug grease and smear a thin film on each bullet ogive.. That will drop the pressure.

Ignition of ball powders (or large doses of very slow extruded powders) is difficult to monitor. If all the rounds go bang, you can think you are good to go. But may be the rounds are just barely getting enough energy to ignite?

Standard primers and magnum primes are not the same:

I have had ball powder loads where most shots were click-bang and other loads that gave me 10% misfires. The latter was in 4000 rounds of 223 I loaded for CQB shooting. I had used the same powder and primer for thousands of rounds with the 77 gr bullet with no problem. But when I switched to the 55 gr bullet - misfires.

Ignition takes energy and pressure. Pressure comes from the primer and from bullet resistance trying to make a pipe bomb. A heavier bullet or more neck tension creates more resistance and more pressure. And better ignition.

My 4000 CQB loads had rounds with 105% of the energy needed to ignite and a few with only 95% of the energy needed. I did not want to pull all these rounds, so I bought a Lee Factory Crimp die and applied a firm crimp. This made them all reliable.

But for future loads I did not want to be that close to the limit, so I switched to a magnum primer (just the way the loading manual specified.)

When making ammo, consider the ignition variables. Light bullet or heavy? Mild powder charge or full case? (case airspace reduces ignition pressure) Ball powder or extruded? Mild primer or hot? (Winchester and magnum primers are hot)

CQB is shot at 20 yards, so I did not need fullpower 223 ammo for my AR15. I loaded a mild dose of ball powder (H335) under a light bullet with a standard primer. Thus the ignition problem.

So, once you know your load works, consider the risk that the ignition might only be 105% of what is needed. Because hunting might involve cold weather, I load fall hunting ammo with a magnum primer, as a cheap guarantee.

 

[B]

CFE 223 certainly needs the right primer in my experience. It's all I have used for bulk 5.56 and .308 for years now. Using a weak primer even at max with some bullets will leave you with poor ignition. Ironically I have found it to be a much better powder for .308 than any .22 cartridge.

 

[boxhitch]

Interesting
no where on the hodgdon site for any cartridge/bullet combo the I looked up does it say to use a magnum primer for CFE223
wonder what they don't know......

 

[B]

Interesting
no where on the hodgdon site for any cartridge/bullet combo the I looked up does it say to use a magnum primer for CFE223
wonder what they don't know......

Where do they list their SD and ES? I am speaking from experience, a lot of it. They all went bang, sure. There is a lot more to it than that for many folks. I didn't say magnum primer btw.

 

[supernova]

Interesting results indeed. I've had a mixed bag of results with ball powders and various primers. Shot a lot of H335/55 fmj/CCI400 in 223 gas guns with very good results. I also had wild spreads with Leverevolution in .30-30 with Rem 9 1/2 primers while Fed 215s gave very consistent velocities. I use the 215s in my Marin 336. Working up a similar load for a 94 I ran into the lever popping open and a few sticky cases. I have a new batch loaded with CCI200 in place of Fed 215s to try in that rifle. Personally I love getting to learn new things with my handloading. Often its more enjoyable than the shooting.

 

[Ganderite]

I see some large differences in velocity in some of those groups, as much as 148fps in 2 loads. 2988 vs 2840, different rifles but still that is a huge difference. I was trying a safe 22-250 load with different makes of primers when i had one blow out and take the ejector with it.

Yes. Different rifles. Red is 30". Tika only 20". There better be a big difference. I was surprised at how small the difference was. With same primer it was around 80 to 100 fps. Not much for 10" more barrel.

 

[Bubba Yugga]

Yes. Different rifles. Red is 30". Tika only 20". There better be a big difference. I was surprised at how small the difference was. With same primer it was around 80 to 100 fps. Not much for 10" more barrel.

It's quite possible that you're getting burnout well before the muzzle on the 30", lessening the perceived benefit.
Also, that "coasting" could help reduce the pressure pulse at bullet muzzle exit, offering a bit more stability on transition to free flight.

 

[Hitzy]

Dunno if you have a stash of those cheap Muron Russian primers CanAm was selling a few years ago, I stocked up on large and small rifle.
They light up everything very well. With extruded they performed the same for me as CCI BR LR,.with both small and large they light up ball great as well.
Ball isn't my favorite for accuracy, gotta be running fairly high pressure for consistency, too low pressure and it's pretty erratic.
I've been running the Muron LR with MagPro in 6.5PRC and 7mm Mag with great results, at near max book loads. MagPro is a pretty slow ball, but it's also an easy one to ignite for some reason, kind of liking it.