Question about headspace

coyotebc

coyotebc

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Location
British Columbia
I was just given a winchester model 88.

About 8 or 10 years ago my brother had it rechambered from 308 to 358.

He purchased a barrel from a company in Alberta.

When he took the rifle to a local gunsmith, he refused to put the barrel on, because it wasn't safe with the excessive headspace (his words)

Can an excessive heaspace problem be fixed.

I would like to turn this model 88 into either a 358 win OR 338 federal carbine.

Thanks
 
If the barrel has already been threaded and fitted to the 88 action and has been chambered with excessive headspace, it could be quite costly to correct the headspace. It may be cheaper to start with a new barrel.

Personally I would not spend big money on an 88 which has been discontinued for so long with no parts available for so long. It was a great rifle in it's day, but that has passed as far as I am concerned.

Get it examined by a gunsmith who has barrelled 88's and see what he says...
 
coyotebc said:
I was just given a winchester model 88.
About 8 or 10 years ago my brother had it rechambered from 308 to 358.
He purchased a barrel from a company in Alberta.
When he took the rifle to a local gunsmith, he refused to put the barrel on, because it wasn't safe with the excessive headspace (his words)

Can an excessive headspace problem be fixed.
I would like to turn this model 88 into either a 358 win OR 338 federal carbine.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Anything be fixed, but does that new barrel have iron sights? Indexing the barrel or removing and reinstalling the sights might cost more money than it's worth.

In theory you could fire form your brass and then just control how far you push it back when hand loading to overcome the headspace issue. I've been doing that with an old Swedish Mauser for years, but "excessive" might mean something different to me than to your gunsmith. If it's so excessive that it's unsafe, and your smith isn't willing to correct the 358 barrel, then maybe re-boring/re-chambering your existing 308 barrel might be a better option?
 
If an excess headspace condition exists, a remedy can be to set the barrel back a thread, re-establish the bolt/barrel face clearance and recut the chamber.
If there are iron sights on the barrel, the job becomes more complicated.
Unless there are other issues, such a job is pretty much routine. Whether or not it makes financial sense is a decision that has to be made.
 
OP, you don't mention whether or not you reload.

If you're shooting factory-loaded ammunition, slightly over max headspace won't be much of a concern.

Unless the headspace is grossly excessive, the only issue you will have will be cartridge cases are a few thousandths longer and maybe expanded more than usual.

If you're leaving those cases in the bush or at the range, and the rifle is reasonably accurate, just shoot it.

If you reload, treat the chamber as a wild cat and adjust your dies to accommodate the dimensions.

Don't bother trying to full-length resize.

Partially resize. This may or may not include bumping back the shoulder of the case a few thousandths. Just enough to ensure easy feeding and chambering.

I've seen this situation several times.

If you can't handle it, then get it fixed.

Not much, if anything will change, other than your balance in your piggy bank.
 
coyotebc said:
I was just given a winchester model 88.
About 8 or 10 years ago my brother had it rechambered from 308 to 358.
He purchased a barrel from a company in Alberta.
When he took the rifle to a local gunsmith, he refused to put the barrel on, because it wasn't safe with the excessive headspace (his words)

Can an excessive heaspace problem be fixed.
I would like to turn this model 88 into either a 358 win OR 338 federal carbine.

Thanks
Click to expand...

"Headspace" is normally the dimension from the closed bolt face to a reference point within the rifle chamber - so it can be influenced by that bolt or whatever seat the bolt locks up against - you do not say "why" that gunsmith said the "headspace" was unsafe - could be something with the barrel (chamber cut too deeply; chamber is worn) or it could be that the bolt or the bolt locking seats are worn beyond spec. You ask if it can be repaired - you will have to ID which end needs fixing - sometimes even a military would "condemn" an action, if it was worn beyond economical repair. FYI - is typical that a FIELD gauge is often circa 0.010" longer than a GO gauge - so is not much between Minimum and Not Okay (Over maximum). As is posted above - about anything can be fixed - it becomes up to you whether it is worth to do so or not.
 
Model 88 has a forward stock bolt nut dovetailed into the bottom of the barrel. Perhaps the smith does not want the problem of setting the barrel back a thread and repositioning that nut.
 
Potashminer said:
"Headspace" is normally the dimension from the closed bolt face to a reference point within the rifle chamber - so it can be influenced by that bolt or whatever seat the bolt locks up against - you do not say "why" that gunsmith said the "headspace" was unsafe - could be something with the barrel (chamber cut too deeply; chamber is worn) or it could be that the bolt or the bolt locking seats are worn beyond spec. You ask if it can be repaired - you will have to ID which end needs fixing - sometimes even a military would "condemn" an action, if it was worn beyond economical repair. FYI - is typical that a FIELD gauge is often circa 0.010" longer than a GO gauge - so is not much between Minimum and Not Okay (Over maximum). As is posted above - about anything can be fixed - it becomes up to you whether it is worth to do so or not.
Click to expand...

I don't know why, as I said this conversation happened 8 to 10 years ago, between my brother and a gunsmith.
I will talk to my brother again
 
coyotebc said:
I don't know why, as I said this conversation happened 8 to 10 years ago, between my brother and a gunsmith.
I will talk to my brother again
Click to expand...
Can You advise where the barrel work was done i Alberta? I am thinking to have an 88-.308win converted to .358win.
Thanks !
 
I talked to my brother.
The barrel was made by Ron Smith, and mailed to my brother.
Ron never saw or had possession of the rifle, the barrel was just ordered from him.
When he went to have it installed by a local gunsmith, the gunsmith tagged it do not fire.
My brother said he was told it was an issue with the bolt that caused the head space issue.

If that doesn't sound right, I would be more than happy to have another gunsmith look at it or repair it.
 
coyotebc said:
I talked to my brother.
The barrel was made by Ron Smith, and mailed to my brother.
Ron never saw or had possession of the rifle, the barrel was just ordered from him.
When he went to have it installed by a local gunsmith, the gunsmith tagged it do not fire.
My brother said he was told it was an issue with the bolt that caused the head space issue.

If that doesn't sound right, I would be more than happy to have another gunsmith look at it or repair it.
Click to expand...
Who chambered and threaded the barrel to fit the action ? RJ
 
The barrel was mounted, but the gunsmith could not get the headspace right and said that he thought it was the bolt or bolt carrier causing the issue.
The rifle previously had a 308 target barrel on it, and the gunsmith figured that the issue was caused either by not loads of the headspace not being correct when the target barrel was put on.
 
I would find a good local gunsmith and have him have look at it. If he figures he can fix it ask for a ball park price and go from there. The M88 is a fine rifle with very little to go wrong with it. Keep the trigger assy clean and lubricate with arasol Rem Oil and you'll most likely enjoy the rifle as long as you need it.
 
Thanks
I am very familiar with the m88.
My dad bought his in 1969, and he was a one gun hunter.
I have owned one since the late 1980's
My one brother is a collector.

This one was a project he was going to have done, convert a 308 to 358 in a carbine.
He lost interest in it because he had one rechambered to 338 federal at the same time and he already had an original 358.

When I told him that I am as going to make one into a 338 federal,, he gave it to me to see if I could do anything with it.

I just bought a used bolt for it, and will be phoning some gunsmith next week, to see if any are taking new work right now.
 
As I understand it, the barrel was chambered without the benefit of test fitting it in the action to set the headspace. This is very unusual, its difficult to understand why a gunsmith would do this. Its obvious that the chamber was (arbitrarily) cut a bit too long - as discovered by the gunsmith that attempted to mount the barrel after the fact.
Whether a new bolt solves the issue is anybodies guess. If it were me I would ascertain how much out of spec the chamber is. (case head supported?). If the headspace is off a by a few thou, i would simply size my reloads to suit. Heck, a fella could likely shoot factory ammo without issue - as is the case with many old Savage 99's in service.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom