7mm08 load Q primer/pressure

WhelanLad

WhelanLad

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Gents,
im goin back to my Woodleigh load, im not stoked on the 160s at 200m on game, slow kills. not much expansion from about 2400fps mv . good bush load .

so i had issue with neck tension hence i switched projies, but have new brass now so want to re load the 140 ppsn.

problem is i get primers starting to flatten, early on from the mix charge of Varget...

about 71mm coal works in the kimber, this is about 1mm shorter than jam.

wanting to try get a little more out of it as it chornos at 2650fps, have heard high 2700s is achievable with the Varget.... but how can i go about tryin to lower that pressure? a bit... seating Deeper into the case as long as accuracy is still there?

keen to hear.
thanks

video of 160gr speer at 200m, goes thru, maybe a tad far back clips one lung, slow kill, (will fill in the story in a hunt report one day soon)
[video=youtube_share;28EHa2oXSyw]https://youtu.be/28EHa2oXSyw[/video]
 
If it's velocity you want Win StaBal 6.5 is the ticket. In my 7/08 I get just a tad over 3000 ft/sec with the 145 gr Speer. Just be aware that it spikes real fast. Another powder that I get good velocity with 145 gr bullets is H100V.
 
Are you using a large rifle, or large rifle magnum primer?

RL17 is the ticket in my 7mm08. I can push 140 Partitions over 3000fps. For the sake of brass life and to avoid sticky extraction I took it back 1.5gr and push them at 2900. This is in a Rem700 w/20" barrel and magnum primers.
 
Im using just large rifle primers,
not chasing super speed but hoping to get a bit more powder in the case than 2650.

not after 3000fps, but around 2800fps
 
so the replicate load in Fc brass, win primer, 40gr Varget an 140gr PPSN, wasnt ideal.... an the primers are flat.

typo before was 51mm coal, its 71mm. about 1mm short of where the bullet is jammed...... should i alter this closer to the lands???
 
Varget is one of the faster powders used in the 7-08 with the 140 grain bullet.

As you know, each rifle is an entity unto itself.

If you're only using 40 grains of Varget in your load, you should still have plenty of space left inside the case to seat the bullet a bit deeper and that bit of freebore should lower pressures.

You could also try Ganderite's trick, dip the tips of your bullets into a bit of high pressure grease, preferably moly based, and that should help pressures come down as well.

It may also decrease velocities. Velocity needs pressure to happen.
 
bearhunter said:
Varget is one of the faster powders used in the 7-08 with the 140 grain bullet.

As you know, each rifle is an entity unto itself.

If you're only using 40 grains of Varget in your load, you should still have plenty of space left inside the case to seat the bullet a bit deeper and that bit of freebore should lower pressures.


It may also decrease velocities. Velocity needs pressure to happen.
Click to expand...

Do you rekon play with Charges or play with Seating depth?

i cant see playing with charges doing much, as 39.5 being min, an im on 40. could maybe go 40.5? but what will it achieve?

seating depth seems to be the next thing to alter- 71mm seems not working. Do i go closer to the lands, or seat deeper to relieve some pressure?

OR Do i re develop a load ? with Winchester Brass??? i hear it may hold more, so lesser pressure with same powder charge?

see how primer goes at 40gr, seated in closer. then work from there?
 
Just purchased X100 of SPEER Grand slams. 145gr.........

Will see how i go with them.

Friend is saying to go to AR2209 4831?? 4835?? or whatever you call it, Slightly slower than VARGET.

wont go there until i play with Varget and seating depths on the Woodleighs, an see how the load goes with Grant Slams.
 
Your rifle seems to be one of those that develops pressure issues quickly with the bullet, powder, primer, and case combination you are using.

Seating the bullet deeper, start .025 in. deeper can often make a substantial difference.

As it is, your load is only about 1 grain below most book maximums. If you have a slightly generous chamber, this only exasperates the problem.

If that were my rifle and I was trying to reach a specific velocity, with a a specific bullet, my first effort would go to using brass fired out of that rifle, and neck resize only. That would tighten up dimensional differences between the cartridge and chamber, which would leave less room for the cartridge to fill during firing and may not allow the primer to move back and "appear" to be flattening from extreme pressures.

I have a Remington 700, chambered for the 7-08. It has a 24-inch SS factory barrel, which I found on a gunshow table.

It had similar issues to those you describe.

Some rifles, especially those with tight chambers, will shoot full-length resized cartridges and factory fodder very well. They're gems if you have one. The rest will shoot the same into 2moa or slightly better on average. Some won't shoot them well at all.

The 7-08 is an ideal cartridge for good 140 grain bullets with most designs. I like it a lot.

It tends to work best with ball powders, which it was initially designed to use and most factory rounds are loaded with.

One reason for this is it allows the bullet to be seated deeper. This may or may not hurt accuracy, but it keeps pressures consistently in safe ranges.

I mentioned Ganderite's trick to you about dipping the tip of your bullets in grease. It works. Type of grease really isn't important, just don't use to much.

I had a 270 Winchester that shot 150 grain bullets into predictably consistent sub moa groups, out past 300 meters. No matter what I did, other than go to lighter bullets, which weren't nearly as consistent, this rifle showed pressure signs on fired cases and primers.

An old REME friend of mine suggested lubricating the bullet, in the same manner indicated by Ganderite. I used a Red, Lithium based grease. Just the slightest amount on the tip was enough.

Pressure symptoms dropped off and velocities were still close enough to what I wanted to work for me.

I'm with you when it comes to heavier is better.

Yes, I know there will be a lot of people disagreeing with this, and that modern premium bullets don't require the extra weight.

The thing is, most people haven't had the opportunity to use those light bullets on game out past 200 meters.

Heavier bullets, of medium to heavy construction provide excellent, through and through penetration/expansion, if they are loaded appropriately for their design.

Yes, I like and use premium bullets if they're all that's available.

If your rifle has a short throat into the leade, your rifle was meant for lighter bullets. That's something you can't change without a visit to a gunsmith, for some throat modifications.

You can cheat a bit by seating the bullets deeper and neck resizing only. If that doesn't work????? Then it's time to go to a different powder, case, primer, bullet combination, which isn't always easy these days.
 
WhelanLad said:
Just purchased X100 of SPEER Grand slams. 145gr.........

Will see how i go with them.

Friend is saying to go to AR2209 4831?? 4835?? or whatever you call it, Slightly slower than VARGET.

wont go there until i play with Varget and seating depths on the Woodleighs, an see how the load goes with Grant Slams.
Click to expand...

The Speer Grand Slam 145 grain bullet is one of my go to 7mm projectiles.

It's one of the toughest cup and core bullets on the market and penetrates/expands very well.

It's great for your application because it has a flat base. On the other hand, it has a long for caliber ogive.

Varget is one of the poorer powders for this bullet.

If you can find some H414 or W760, you will easily be able to get 2800+fps from your rifle, if it has a barrel 22inches or longer. IMR4350 or H4350 will do the job as well.
 
bearhunter said:
Your rifle seems to be one of those that develops pressure issues quickly with the bullet, powder, primer, and case combination you are using.

Seating the bullet deeper, start .025 in. deeper can often make a substantial difference.

As it is, your load is only about 1 grain below most book maximums. If you have a slightly generous chamber, this only exasperates the problem.
im about 2.5 gr from adi max- its 42.5 for 2810 or so in 24inch.
If that were my rifle and I was trying to reach a specific velocity, with a a specific bullet, my first effort would go to using brass fired out of that rifle, and neck resize only. That would tighten up dimensional differences between the cartridge and chamber, which would leave less room for the cartridge to fill during firing and may not allow the primer to move back and "appear" to be flattening from extreme pressures.
this particular was neck sized, but once fired somewher else---- is this an issue? i only neck size this 708.. i do also have win brass.
I have a Remington 700, chambered for the 7-08. It has a 24-inch SS factory barrel, which I found on a gunshow table.

It had similar issues to those you describe.

Some rifles, especially those with tight chambers, will shoot full-length resized cartridges and factory fodder very well. They're gems if you have one. The rest will shoot the same into 2moa or slightly better on average. Some won't shoot them well at all.

The 7-08 is an ideal cartridge for good 140 grain bullets with most designs. I like it a lot.

It tends to work best with ball powders, which it was initially designed to use and most factory rounds are loaded with.

One reason for this is it allows the bullet to be seated deeper. This may or may not hurt accuracy, but it keeps pressures consistently in safe ranges.

I mentioned Ganderite's trick to you about dipping the tip of your bullets in grease. It works. Type of grease really isn't important, just don't use to much.

I had a 270 Winchester that shot 150 grain bullets into predictably consistent sub moa groups, out past 300 meters. No matter what I did, other than go to lighter bullets, which weren't nearly as consistent, this rifle showed pressure signs on fired cases and primers.

An old REME friend of mine suggested lubricating the bullet, in the same manner indicated by Ganderite. I used a Red, Lithium based grease. Just the slightest amount on the tip was enough.

Pressure symptoms dropped off and velocities were still close enough to what I wanted to work for me.

I'm with you when it comes to heavier is better.

Yes, I know there will be a lot of people disagreeing with this, and that modern premium bullets don't require the extra weight.

The thing is, most people haven't had the opportunity to use those light bullets on game out past 200 meters.

Heavier bullets, of medium to heavy construction provide excellent, through and through penetration/expansion, if they are loaded appropriately for their design.

Yes, I like and use premium bullets if they're all that's available.

If your rifle has a short throat into the leade, your rifle was meant for lighter bullets. That's something you can't change without a visit to a gunsmith, for some throat modifications.

You can cheat a bit by seating the bullets deeper and neck resizing only. If that doesn't work????? Then it's time to go to a different powder, case, primer, bullet combination, which isn't always easy these days.
Click to expand...

Thanks just getting back to you on some of the Questiosn to get you more up to speed on where i am at! -

Not wanting too much more out of it, the chrono showedthe 40gr PPSN load at 2650, i think this osunds fair in 22 inch, friend says WTH thats slow?

not lookin for much more than arond 2700 or so with varget ideally but may be time to switch powders for the 140/145gr loads?

currently neck sizing Win brass for 160gr HOT COR but i think they are a little hard once at 200m velocitys an not much good beyond that-
 
bearhunter said:
The Speer Grand Slam 145 grain bullet is one of my go to 7mm projectiles.

It's one of the toughest cup and core bullets on the market and penetrates/expands very well.

It's great for your application because it has a flat base. On the other hand, it has a long for caliber ogive.

Varget is one of the poorer powders for this bullet.

If you can find some H414 or W760, you will easily be able to get 2800+fps from your rifle, if it has a barrel 22inches or longer. IMR4350 or H4350 will do the job as well.
Click to expand...

4350 is AR2209 here an that is what friend suggests to get higher velocity... 48gr or so he rekons will be a sweet spot.

i cant reaaallly justify spending the money on powder right now, mid winter an all, live like a bum in the woods.. but i will defintley consider it if i cant find accuracy with varget / speer combo
 
48gr should be close from what I have found, H4350 and 145 Grand Slams I was getting 2750 ft/sec with 46 grains and 2780 with 46.5 from a Weatherby Vanguard with 24" barrel. The faster load was more accurate for me, 1.25-1.5" at 100m. Worked up some 139 Interlocks BT with IMR 4064 at 41gr going 2790 and 42 gr going 2850, both were .75 " at 100m.
 
Seating depths was wrong initially. Don't know where I got 71mm from, was 69mm... An pressures dropped alot.
Still no accuracy with Woodleigh.... However my hot cor load almost touched today...

Going grand slams for a while. Plus hot cor bushload
 
I haven't had much experience with Woodleigh bullets.

The few hundred I did shoot were .312 diameter, 200 grain round nose, flat base and that was over thirty years ago.

What I do remember about them, is they had very long for caliber bearing surfaces, which will also create a condition that will increase pressures.

I went back into my reloading notes and saw a notation to keep powder charges in the middle of the suggested load tables, for that bullet and weight, because of high pressure signs. Had one of a very few case head separations with those bullets. Put a bad taste on them for me.

Not the fault of the bullets, my fault completely. Should have started with a minimum load and worked up.

If I'm going to shoot Nosler or Norma bullets, the procedure now starts at minimum load, one cartridge and add two more grains on the next one, etc, until I see signs of worry.

Most of the time I start with a median load and work up from there. Sometimes that isn't a good procedure.
 
7-08 was made for 140-150gr bullets. Used Noslers mostly in mine, 140's w/ww760 and a CCI250, 2850. I like powders that run in the 45gr-49gr zone in it, they do seem to work better with vel and accuracy for me. Playing with another one using H and IMR 4350 and RL16, so far the RL16 seems to work best, high 2700 range, but, that is with an F210 as well, haven't tried a 215 or 250 yet, maybe that'll get me up over the 28 mark again. Probably more just the difference in the guns than anything else. Unfortunate part is RL16 won't be available for the forseeable future, as Alliant is stopping retail sales on their powders. Haven't bought any Staball yet, the 6.5 shud be the one to try out though.
 
209jones said:
7-08 was made for 140-150gr bullets. Used Noslers mostly in mine, 140's w/ww760 and a CCI250, 2850. I like powders that run in the 45gr-49gr zone in it, they do seem to work better with vel and accuracy for me. Playing with another one using H and IMR 4350 and RL16, so far the RL16 seems to work best, high 2700 range, but, that is with an F210 as well, haven't tried a 215 or 250 yet, maybe that'll get me up over the 28 mark again. Probably more just the difference in the guns than anything else. Unfortunate part is RL16 won't be available for the forseeable future, as Alliant is stopping retail sales on their powders. Haven't bought any Staball yet, the 6.5 shud be the one to try out though.
Click to expand...
bearhunter said:
I haven't had much experience with Woodleigh bullets.

The few hundred I did shoot were .312 diameter, 200 grain round nose, flat base and that was over thirty years ago.

What I do remember about them, is they had very long for caliber bearing surfaces, which will also create a condition that will increase pressures.

I went back into my reloading notes and saw a notation to keep powder charges in the middle of the suggested load tables, for that bullet and weight, because of high pressure signs. Had one of a very few case head separations with those bullets. Put a bad taste on them for me.

Not the fault of the bullets, my fault completely. Should have started with a minimum load and worked up.

If I'm going to shoot Nosler or Norma bullets, the procedure now starts at minimum load, one cartridge and add two more grains on the next one, etc, until I see signs of worry.

Most of the time I start with a median load and work up from there. Sometimes that isn't a good procedure.
Click to expand...
im now in the high 2700s with 22 inch tube an Varget, about to max out but accuracy isnt tooo bad, just over an inch an hoping that max or wee higher tightens up just a bit for me to be happy with!

i hear you BH about the woodleigh bearing surface, i think this has been my drama also, i thought i had tight chamber etc, but im pushing these Speer GS to max... unheard of for my kimber. no sign of pressure!
 
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