Accuracy loss after cleaning. Question?

Longstud said:
Im not trying to be a know it all but windex has ammonia in it. If not neutralized it can cause rust to develop very quickly in certain barrels. A 50/50 mix of vinegar and water will neutralize the ammonia but I always use nitro solvent on a few patches and then oiled patches followed by dry patching.
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I need to get some Hoppes #9 for this. Saying that, I did run an oil patch through them all in the end.
 
SuperCub said:
I need to get some Hoppes #9 for this. Saying that, I did run an oil patch through them all in the end.
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I have used isopropyl alcohol for many years just prior to using a patch with G96. If Im not shooting the rifle(storing)I leave it and then dry patch before shooting the gun. Im sure its just a simple thing that youll figure out quickly.
 
First, I would not use Barnes CR-10, especially if it is a cooper cleaner. I don't use harsh chemicals in my rifles or shotguns. Hoppes is a mild solvent and used it since I was 8 years old. I would not conclude the accuracy of a rifle with only a few rounds. Most days I shoot well, however there are days I don't: when you're hot you're hot, and when you're not you're not.
Sometimes going to the range after a lengthy time-period between visits requires some warming-up/several practice shots. August is still a warm to hot time of year, heat effects accuracy.
 
track said:
First, I would not use Barnes CR-10, especially if it is a cooper cleaner. I don't use harsh chemicals in my rifles or shotguns. Hoppes is a mild solvent and used it since I was 8 years old. I would not conclude the accuracy of a rifle with only a few rounds. Most days I shoot well, however there are days I don't: when you're hot you're hot, and when you're not you're not.
Sometimes going to the range after a lengthy time-period between visits requires some warming-up/several practice shots. August is still a warm to hot time of year, heat effects accuracy.
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I agree with you on the weather and the hot and cold days of shooting. Youll however be a very long time cleaning copper fouling with Hoppes #9. If you shoot monometal bullets ,wether you like it or not, youll have to use something to clean the copper out eventually. Benchrest shooters have been using Sweets 7.62 for many decades. These are the best shooters in the world, so accuracy is vital. If used properly it does not harm barrels. It however has to be used properly. If its a hunting firearm only used a couple times a year with few rounds fired, many years can pass before accuracy degrades and only your gun will tell you that.
 
Longstud said:
Im not trying to be a know it all but windex has ammonia in it. If not neutralized it can cause rust to develop very quickly in certain barrels. A 50/50 mix of vinegar and water will neutralize the ammonia but I always use nitro solvent on a few patches and then oiled patches followed by dry patching.
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The ammonia does no harm... ammonia does not need neutralizing... but it leaves the bore so clean the bore is susceptible to rusting, so oiling the bore is required to prevent rusting.
 
track said:
First, I would not use Barnes CR-10, especially if it is a cooper cleaner. I don't use harsh chemicals in my rifles or shotguns. Hoppes is a mild solvent and used it since I was 8 years old. I would not conclude the accuracy of a rifle with only a few rounds. Most days I shoot well, however there are days I don't: when you're hot you're hot, and when you're not you're not.
Sometimes going to the range after a lengthy time-period between visits requires some warming-up/several practice shots. August is still a warm to hot time of year, heat effects accuracy.
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I don't leave the CR-10 in for long. 10min tops and it does well enough to remove the copper where as Hoppes #9 is better for cleaning out the carbon in the bore.

I pay attention to the temp and either shoot early in the morning before it gets hot here or have packed my ammo in a small cooler with freezer packs to keep it from heating up. Overall, it usually doesn't get that hot here near the ocean, in fact our range overlooks the Bay of Fundy (ocean). :)
 
Just a couple things to add - First, I've seen the 'Windex' discussion often, esp regarding neutralizing corrosive MS-ammo. So I just checked 'online' and Windex comes in Ammonia OR Vinegar for glass cleaners. Either should be OK for bores, esp if you follow it with lube.
I do the Iso-Alc rinse after all cleaning just to remove any residual cra* left afterwards - the patches always come off dirty. I then lube with Mobil-1 that I save from oil changes in my car, by inverting the can over a container for a few hours. Gets an ounce or so and that lasts a long time.
 
PS - I also Don't believe in the "Copper-equilibrium" theory; I believe significant Copper doesn't belong in a bore. A few streaks remaining after a good Cu solvent 'should be OK' but I don't leave much. And again, I remove any/all solvents with Alcohol and then lube the bore.
 
Have you chrono'd this load over its first 100rds? If velocity jumped for some reason it may have pushed your load out of tune.
I'm wondering if you've developed a carbon ring?
 
How much coffee did you drink while shooting the 275Rigby?
I'm sure there is a simple logical reason for the growing group size and it will be an aHA moment right about the time
it is discovered.
Rob
 
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Clean it down to bare steel and apply Dyna bore coat. Probably won’t have to clean that barrel again in what’s left of your shooting days.
 
Not to derail this into a favourite solvent thread, but I’ve had really good results with wipeout. It’s mild enough that you don’t have to be careful about how long it’s in the barrel and it does a really good job with carbon and copper. The only barrel I’ve run into where I wished I had something stronger like Sweets is a 257 wby mag. So much copper…
 
One of the goals of barrel break-in is to fill the pores of the barrel with some copper, for a smooth functioning. With time, copper with accumulate everywhere. When you apply a copper remover, you remove all the copper including the one 'needed' for good functioning. What happens next is a loss of accuracy, meaning you have to break in the barrel again before you get your previous accuracy.
If I were you I would give it another cleaning at this stage with your copper remover. No windex. Some Hoppe's. I check the bore with a Teslong. Then I would go to the range and shoot 20-30 rounds. I would make sure my action screws are tight and to specs as well as the scopes's. I hope this will help.
 
I do not think modern carbon steel or stainless steel, after machining - has any "pores" - is not cast iron or cast bronze like cannon barrels were several hundred years ago. But, what "works" is important - I might disagree "why" it works, but I do use a borescope to see what is in there when I start, and what is in there when I think I am done. I am not a high end target shooter - most of my targets have an inch diameter circle on them - if I can put three or five rounds into that 1" circle at 100 yards - my load, my rifle "tuning" is done - is good enough for me. I did have a Savage 112V in 22-250 - I watched an acquaintance use it from sandbags at 100 yards - was a five sided lumpy "hole" on the target paper - the case head of a fired 22-250 shell completely covered the hole in the paper - so likely a 1/4" C-C group - my rifle, my 10X Lyman scope, my hand loads. I fired probably hundreds of groups with that rifle - I never did get a group that close together - I think he was just a better shooter than I am - I do not know why he shot such a good group, but he did it.
 
SuperCub said:
For reference .... The dots in the middle pic are 0.750" while the dot in the last pic is 1.00".

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This might just be the shooter was having an off day at the range. Shooting rest a bit different, pushing in on the stock a bit inconsistent, a little of this plus a little of that and groups might open. Looking at the change in group size, based on one trip to the range, I wouldn't come to a solid conclusion.

If the colored dots are your aiming point then I would definitely switch to smaller dots, as small as possible. Smaller aiming point, smaller groups.
 
Jon87 said:
Not to derail this into a favourite solvent thread, but I’ve had really good results with wipeout. It’s mild enough that you don’t have to be careful about how long it’s in the barrel and it does a really good job with carbon and copper. The only barrel I’ve run into where I wished I had something stronger like Sweets is a 257 wby mag. So much copper…
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I will do this again, using WipeOut. It calls to be in the bore for a full hour before patching and for stubborn copper leave it in overnight.
 
Lodi said:
This might just be the shooter was having an off day at the range. Shooting rest a bit different, pushing in on the stock a bit inconsistent, a little of this plus a little of that and groups might open. Looking at the change in group size, based on one trip to the range, I wouldn't come to a solid conclusion.

If the colored dots are your aiming point then I would definitely switch to smaller dots, as small as possible. Smaller aiming point, smaller groups.
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That was my 2nd trip out with this rifle after cleaning and on the that trip shot three other rifles without problems getting 3/4" groups or smaller.
 
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