Strange issue with Lever action/ ammo?

R

RyoTHC

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
55   0   0
Location
Westlock
Good day guys.

I bought a Bighorn Armoury model 89 in 500S&W a while ago, and am have been getting really inconsistent accuracy from EXPENSIVE factory ammo..($120+ tax per 20 rounds)

Until today I couldn’t figure it out and have wasted over 800$ in god damn ammo trying to find out what the hell the issue is..

For zeroing and what not I single load shots for safety.
But when I’m hunting or actually practicing with the gun I will load up the tube magazine so I can take multiple quick shots etc to get comfortable with the gun.

Today I loaded a mag tube with 6 of the 7 max rounds.. but got interrupted and had to go home, so I manually unloaded them.

Upon looking at the ammo once I got home I noticed that loading multiple rounds into the tube ruins the ammo!

Can someone explain this to me ? Is this just trash ammo (Hornady) or is there something wrong with my mag tube causing this to happen?

When you push rounds into the side gate, it forces the actual bullet further into the case, thus severely changing its accuracy and likely dramatically increasing the pressure.

What gives? I am beyond annoyed to spend 1000$ on ammo and $5000 on a gun and to have this happening.

Either the ammo is trash or the gun is… which one should I chuck into the trash first?

I can’t even fathom how simply loading round into the side gate can put this much pressure on them and cause this much of an issue. My groups are all over the place but now I realize it’s likely because every bullet is pushed down a different amount.

If I single load and shoot it’s a tack driver.
As it sits now it’s completely useless for a hunting rifle.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3649.jpeg
    IMG_3649.jpeg
    136.2 KB · Views: 38
I’ve recently purchased the dye set as I was intending to reload 350 grain bullets myself as I was getting so damn upset with the factory ammo at 7$ a trigger pull and having 12” groups at 100 yards.

It’s insane to me that I’d have to buy factory ammo that’s so expensive and then run it though my press to actually get it to work reliably.

So, is the ammo the problem is or the gun the problem?

I did a tonne of research on this gun before dropping as much cash as I did and I didn’t read a single person having issues with their ammo being ruined by loading it into the gun.

What are the odds I’m the only one this happens to when thousands of people have this rifle ? (Based on serial numbers and knowing they started at 00001)
 
cosmic said:
Its the ammo. most factory ammo has a crimp at the top of the brass. its there to ensure the bullet doesnt shift from the recoil. you can buy a crimp die to put a crimp on your factory rounds. Otherwise, switch brands of ammo.
Click to expand...
I’m really confused as to why Hornadys premium ammo that’s advertised for African dangerous game hunts wouldn’t be crimped or good enough quality.

My mind is blown.
I’ll never buy another Hornady product in my life.

At least I have a bunch of fire fitted 1F brass and other bullets and I’ll do this myself going forward.

Advice taken to crimp the ever loving hell out of the bullets.
And I’ll load and unload them through the mag tube a time or two and confirm the seating depth before heading out hunting if I ever get that far with this rifle.

I just had this rifle on a draw moose hunt for 3 weeks, I am so so thankful now that I didn’t get a shot at a legal bull because who knows what could have happened. Confirming zero and adjusting prior to the hunt I single loaded every shot so, my POI with that mushed bullet could have been very very far from where I expected.
 
Last edited:
It's definitely the ammo . I had a similiar thing happen with a Rossi chambered in 44RM . The bullets weren't crimped properly from the factory . I switched ammo and never had another issue . Unfortunately , you don't have as much of a selection to choose from regarding factory ammunition . As was mentioned above , since you already have the ammo . try crimping the bullets and see if that works .
 
I agree it’s an issue with the ammo. More crimp should fix it. Could be that the tube mag is harder on them than the revolver they are loaded for, the number of rifles in 500 s&w is pretty small overall and I don’t imagine Hornady really considers them when designing the loads.
 
257hunter said:
I agree it’s an issue with the ammo. More crimp should fix it. Could be that the tube mag is harder on them than the revolver they are loaded for, the number of rifles in 500 s&w is pretty small overall and I don’t imagine Hornady really considers them when designing the loads.
Click to expand...
You know what..

That is honestly something I had not considered though I am surprised that in all my research about the rifle and company I didn’t hear one complaint about this.. though I wouldn’t be surprised if the vast majority of folks shooting this caliber out of a rifle do reload it themselves.
I normally reload but since having kids I stocked up on factory for the few calibres I have that worked (single loaded) to last me several years and now I’m regretting that decision.. I’ve already grabbed the bullets powder primer and dyes for the 500 and I guess I will be back to the drawing board there.
 
I had the same problem with 44 mag and 44-40
A Lee factory crimp die solved most of the issue
A 500 is a heavy recoiling rifle so the bullets can “turtle” as you fire the rifle too
I’m not sure if 500 S&W headspace’s off the back or off the front like some cartridges do like a 45 acp, if it does you have to be careful how you crimp
 
RyoTHC said:
I’ve recently purchased the dye set as I was intending to reload 350 grain bullets myself as I was getting so damn upset with the factory ammo at 7$ a trigger pull and having 12” groups at 100 yards.

It’s insane to me that I’d have to buy factory ammo that’s so expensive and then run it though my press to actually get it to work reliably.

So, is the ammo the problem is or the gun the problem?

I did a tonne of research on this gun before dropping as much cash as I did and I didn’t read a single person having issues with their ammo being ruined by loading it into the gun.

What are the odds I’m the only one this happens to when thousands of people have this rifle ? (Based on serial numbers and knowing they started at 00001)
Click to expand...
I'd say the problem is both the ammo and the gun.

The ammo is made for a revolver, so the crimp is appropriate for that application.
The rifle requires a certain mag spring tension to feed the 500 S&W reliably, and that spring tension is clearly too much for the revolver intended ammo.

You could opt for a lesser poundage spring, but it may not feed reliably when asked to? Or, crimp the ammo so it'll maintain length under that spring pressure and recoil? But, careful. The potential for a pressure spike is real if you over crimp the bullet to the case.

Or, go with a 30-30 chamber that's been taking game since 1894 reliably? :devilish: Not helpful I know, yet truthful.

Another potential fix, and hear me out, is snap caps. We've all heard the argument that compressing a spring doesn't weaken it, it's the stretch cycle that does, but anecdotally I think that's horsesh1t. You might try to either invest in some snap caps, or make some dummy rounds (ideally slightly longer than sammi spec.), and store the gun with the mag tube loaded. Next season, I'll bet you find a marked improvement, the mag spring being compressed for months will take some "umph" out of it.
 
Last edited:
Quite frankly, its your inexperience with lever gun that is the primary problem here. Someone already covered the "ammunition isn't the problem " part of the equation with the ammo built for the much more common handgun in the caliber...you inexperience shows when you didnt know that tube fed rifles require solid crimps to the bullet....the first thing I would look for when loading that rifle is how well the crimp is locked.
The second inexperience shows when you didnt know that the amount of spring tension inside the tube can very greatly from gun to gun and is very easy to change to what you preffer. Spring tension can be so strong as to break finger nails trying to insert a round ( also push bullets back into the case if not crimped strongly) or they can be very comfortable to load....how you set your own rifle is your preference. The rifles I set up for use are often used by ladies so I set the spring tension to be easy loaders . To set the spring just remove the tube end and let the spring slide out of the tube as much as its own coils will force it too ( make sure the other end is still holding the follower into its anchor point at the action end. I have seen factory springs have 10 or 11 inches of protruding spring coils. Now I hold my four fingers at the end of the tube and cut the excess spring off level with my top finger and re-install tube end plug. I consider a proper spring setting to just be able to push the last round of a mag full into the action from the tube when its turn comes around.
Your ammo needs to be adjusted for you usage ...not its intended usage and also the rifle just needs to be set to your preference....don't despair its just a fact of life with lever guns.


Sorry Painkiller for doubling your post, I was typing when you were posting.
 
Looks like it's manufactured for a handgun and not meant to load end to end and be compressed in a mag. tube

Maybe crimp them before using in a lever.

Maybe trim off a coil at a time from the magvtube spring until you still have positive feeding but not that crazy amount on compression.
 
Appreciate the thought out replies guys.
I’ve had mostly mag fed lever guns before this besides a Marlin 1895 which gave me zero issues with factory ammo, but I was using factory ammo designed for a rifle I guess.

I’ll admit I’m a hunter and not a shooter so I just expected an expensive gun like this with the most expensive factory ammo I’ve ever purchased to… work. Like every other gun and ammo I’ve ever used before it lol

What’s baffling me as how I’ve found no mention of this anywhere relating to people having issues with factory 500 S&W ammo in lever actions.. if I would have known it was such an issue to use this caliber in a tube fed rifle, I probably would have skipped it from the get go and stuck with the 1895.

As to the fellow that mentioned a 30-30, well.. if you’re comfortable carrying that hunting in remote grizzly bear country, that’s cool! I’d rather have a bunch more jam behind my round lol
 
RyoTHC said:
Appreciate the thought out replies guys.
I’ve had mostly mag fed lever guns before this besides a Marlin 1895 which gave me zero issues with factory ammo, but I was using factory ammo designed for a rifle I guess.

I’ll admit I’m a hunter and not a shooter so I just expected an expensive gun like this with the most expensive factory ammo I’ve ever purchased to… work. Like every other gun and ammo I’ve ever used before it lol

What’s baffling me as how I’ve found no mention of this anywhere relating to people having issues with factory 500 S&W ammo in lever actions.. if I would have known it was such an issue to use this caliber in a tube fed rifle, I probably would have skipped it from the get go and stuck with the 1895.

As to the fellow that mentioned a 30-30, well.. if you’re comfortable carrying that hunting in remote grizzly bear country, that’s cool! I’d rather have a bunch more jam behind my round lol
Click to expand...
Well, at least I'd hit it. You can force all the jam you want down the barrel, with 12" MOA, you ain't hittin' sh1t. Oh, and you're welcome btw. You be certain to crimp the ever lovin' out of those factory rounds okay. (another on ignore.)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom