Lever action shooting high

Jarvy

Jarvy

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I have a peculiar problem. Ive had 2 lever action rifles (a henry, and now a rossi) that shoot ridiculously high: nearly a foot and a half from point of aim at 50y.

I've tried different ammo types, I've tried different positions (strong grip on handguard, soft grip on handguard, no grip on handguard resting on a bag, etc.) And the result is exactly the same: A consistently tight group, perfect windage, but 18" high.

I'm pretty experienced with using irons, just about every rifle I've ever owned has had fixed irons or BUIS that are zeroed without issue at double the range. I know how to use buckhorns, but these particular rifles have rear apertures.

Heres's the kicker: When I hand these rifles off to my father, a novice shooter, the rounds hit point of aim. I shoot irons with handgun, semiautos and bolt actions no problem, so what am I doing wrong?
 
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What kind of rear sights do they have? Could you be lining up the front sight with the top of the rear sight, while your father is burying the front sight lower into the V notch or buckhorn or whatever you've got?
 
If your rifles are shooting high - get them into a program. Say no to drugs! Sorry, I couldn't resist.

The first question is are both you and your father going to be shooting the rifles. If only you, then get a taller front site and that will bring your POI down where you want it without changing your POA. If only your father - leave them where they are. If both of you are going to use them there's only one solution - buy more guns, so you both have your own that work for you. Actually "Buy more guns" is always the answer - even if you're not having any problems.
 
Suther said:
What kind of rear sights do they have? Could you be lining up the front sight with the top of the rear sight, while your father is burying the front sight lower into the V notch or buckhorn or whatever you've got?
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That's almost surely the problem. Seems like father is using the sights correctly, while OP is not.

Or the father has a GNARLY, yet consistent, flinch. Lol
 
KePet said:
If your rifles are shooting high - get them into a program. Say no to drugs! Sorry, I couldn't resist.

The first question is are both you and your father going to be shooting the rifles. If only you, then get a taller front site and that will bring your POI down where you want it without changing your POA. If only your father - leave them where they are. If both of you are going to use them there's only one solution - buy more guns, so you both have your own that work for you. Actually "Buy more guns" is always the answer - even if you're not having any problems.
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Part of the issue is that its shooting so high that no one makes a front post tall enough- Ive tried. I must be doing something wrong but I cant for the life of me imagine what could be causing such an extreme shift
 
This happened with my winchester and another range member's lever action - always shooting high. I learned that, at least for mine, I needed to position my buckhorn sights as if they were peep sights (buckhorn concentric with target), and the top of the "stick" should always be in the middle. After I did that, it was spot-on. Good luck!
 
Jarvy said:
When it happened today, we were using an aperture.
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Are you making sure to follow through? Follow through after a shot is REALLY important. Without a proper follow through, you will be subconsciously dropping the rifle down just as the shot breaks.

I used to shoot with a guy who had zero follow through. It was as if he was embarrassed at having fired the rifle. He'd immediately drop the rifle to waist height essentially as soon as the shot broke. THAT is really bad for marksmanship. You need to practice follow through and hold the rifle in place deliberately after the shot breaks.

Another thing that often results in shots going high is not getting your head firmly on the stock. This is most common with 12ga shotguns that don't have a rear sight. It is super easy to not have your eye low enough to the back of the receiver and pull the shot high.

Whatever the problem is, it is with you and not the rifle. If your father is shooting the thing to POA then the problem is you. Sorry.
 
Used to be, when I would shoot my brother's 94 it would shoot 6-7" low for me. I tend to get a death-grip on the forend, and this is the only explanation I can think of for the change in poi.
 
9.3mauser said:
Used to be, when I would shoot my brother's 94 it would shoot 6-7" low for me. I tend to get a death-grip on the forend, and this is the only explanation I can think of for the change in poi.
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I thought of that too, which is why I tried chaging it up, but I kept getting the same result.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
Are you making sure to follow through? Follow through after a shot is REALLY important. Without a proper follow through, you will be subconsciously dropping the rifle down just as the shot breaks.
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Of course. But I'm not shooting low, I'm shooting 18" high.

Every rifle I've ever owned has had their fixed or backup irons zeroed and I regularly get practice in with them, I think my fundamentals are solid. The rifle in question is a Rossi in .357, my sight picture remains pretty close to rock solid right through the recoil. The shots feel like they should be perfect, and they do group consistently well - just absurdly high! It doesn't feel like that sort of change should even be possible at 50y but there it is.

Another thing that often results in shots going high is not getting your head firmly on the stock
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I made a conscious effort to ensure my cheek weld was solid and consistent.

Whatever the problem is, it is with you and not the rifle. If your father is shooting the thing to POA then the problem is you. Sorry.
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Yeah, as stated that's literally why I made this thread. I'm trying to figure out what technique or oddity of lever actions I might be missing here that's giving me a massive POI shift I don't get from modern semiautos or ancient surplus rifles.

What does a lever action require me to do differently from the Lee Enfield, or the mauser, or the Mosin, or the AR15, or the T97, or the T81 or the X95, or the SKS, or the CZ Skorpion, etc etc etc, all of which I've shot with irons at longer ranges, without issue? Even the remlin I shot on one range trip (before it lived up to it's reputation and broke while being transported in a padded case) shot just fine with their trashy buckhorns.

So what am I missing with this Rossi!? (And the henry before it) What's different?
 
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balonbay said:
This happened with my winchester and another range member's lever action - always shooting high. I learned that, at least for mine, I needed to position my buckhorn sights as if they were peep sights (buckhorn concentric with target), and the top of the "stick" should always be in the middle. After I did that, it was spot-on. Good luck!
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The problem is, I was using a rear aperture sight.
 
How's you eyesight? Are you wearing prescription glasses or contact lenses? An example: a friend of mine has always been short-sighted and became long-sighted with age, with each eye impacted differently in both dimensions. Now uses progressive lenses. The way he sees iron sights is always out of kilter: blurry or distorted in some way, with or without glasses.
 
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