Trap gun confusion solution - oh my!

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pirranna

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Hi there,

So I tried some trap shooting and I think I could be hooked. The problem is that, outside of a Benelli Supernova tactical pump with a 18.5" barrel and a family 1936 single shot 12 gauge I don't have the right equipment! I am ok making some investment but not like $2,500+ investment. Looked at other pumps, semi-auto and used O/U's and suffering from info overload.

So I have done a lot of research and admittedly I am probably more confused than before.

Briefly:
  1. Mainly I will be doing some single trap shooting and perhaps some skeet shooting. Hunting is not my thing.
  2. Shiny and pretty is not important to me - rather functional and reliable which is why it seems that used Beretta or Brownings are recommended.
  3. I toyed with buying a $600 Benelli nova and swapping the barrel with my supernova tactical since Benelli barrels are almost impossible to find and that's cheaper than I probably would be able to find a decent pump.
  4. I found a decent Browning Citori O/U but it has a Fixed modified and full choke (no comb adjustment). My buddy says that for trap you need to ensure full choke for both barrels. I found a used Breda O/U which a similiar setup which I was told would be a better "birding" gun.
Questions/advice?
  1. Is fixed choke problematic? Is full choke desirable?
  2. If I bought a O/U that had a fixed modified and full choke - does that work for trap/skeep or is it really a "bird" gun?
  3. If my partner is only interested in trap shooting, would a single shot shotgun be acceptable or frowned upon? She is only 5'1 and I obviously don't need it to be like a mule kicking her.
  4. Should I simply pay more money to have a gun that I can change the choke (vs. fixed choke) for trap/skeet?
  5. My buddy has a Turkish Churchill O/U and claims it works great and has held up. Are all Turkish guns (especially O/U) problematic? The forums are not kind with Turkish guns and I don't want a $1k paperweight if I can spend a bit more to get something that will hold up.
  6. What about Stoger and Franchi? I am seeing some weird names for O/U that appear to be Italian so would you avoid them too?
Thanks!
 
This question needs it's own website to answer.

I hope it stays on topic for you and doesn't turn into a schitt show.
 
Well bump a single digit age memory.
Ol’ Paw use to shoot at the Sperling Road trap club.
Anyone on the planet remember this club in the Vancouver district?
His old 1957 A-5 yewsed thuh smoke them clays.
He was a good hand with his eagle eyes.
His compadres were steaming t’ween the ears wartch’in’im beat their cassitee off.
Some of them were sporting $2000 + o/u back in the 60’s.

Yewse watt werks. 💰💰👍
 
kamlooky said:
Well bump a single digit age memory.
Ol’ Paw use to shoot at the Sperling Road trap club.
Anyone on the planet remember this club in the Vancouver district?
His old 1957 A-5 yewsed thuh smoke them clays.
He was a good hand with his eagle eyes.
His compadres were steaming t’ween the ears wartch’in’im beat their cassitee off.
Some of them were sporting $2000 + o/u back in the 60’s.

Yewse watt werks. 💰💰👍
Click to expand...
Saw an A-5 and it seemed like a tank. At $950 it seemed a bit steep and antiquated but perhaps it is worth reconsidering...

Tx!
 
Skeet and trap require very different chokes ( IC vs full or mod) . Skeet requires doubles, so a pump is sub-optimal. Think semi, or double barrel with changeable chokes. Churchill make a decent O/U, Both Winchester (SX4) and Beretta (A300) make a decent semi. All are reasonably priced, approx 1K$.
 
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I shoot trap fairly regularly, and while there are plenty with $3000.00 shotguns, leather padded jackets, silly hats and glasses, I shoot every bit as well as them with my $200 wingmaster and goofy splayed stance. Sometimes even better. Suffice to say, I don't make friends at the trap range. :giggle:

Of all your questions, you need to answer (for yourself), what is important to you. Do you want to break clays, or do you want to "look good" trying to break clays?

For trap, mod. choke is standard, full choke if you want to lead the clay for a bit longer (hesitated distance shot).
 
Painkillers said:
I shoot trap fairly regularly, and while there are plenty with $3000.00 shotguns, leather padded jackets, silly hats and glasses, I shoot every bit as well as them with my $200 wingmaster and goofy splayed stance. Sometimes even better. Suffice to say, I don't make friends at the trap range. :giggle:

Of all your questions, you need to answer (for yourself), what is important to you. Do you want to break clays, or do you want to "look good" trying to break clays?

For trap, mod. choke is standard, full choke if you want to lead the clay for a bit longer (hesitated distance shot).
Click to expand...
This is helpful - thank you Painkillers :)
 
pirranna said:
Saw an A-5 and it seemed like a tank. At $950 it seemed a bit steep and antiquated but perhaps it is worth reconsidering...

Tx!
Click to expand...

It has to be really special at that price.
There is one here with a factory modified choke that I have been packing from our gun show for less than arf that price.
 
Will your partner be shooting along side of you at the same time ( if so, now you're needing 2 guns..lol )
or just every now and then taking turns, with your guidance ?
To share a gun, and to be easier on her small frame I'd suggest a reputable semi-auto with a few different chokes.
Both 12 ga and 20 ga are very viable options for either discipline. I shoot with a lot of folks who have gone to solely 20 ga for all their shooting needs...just for the recoil factor alone, plus, they're smaller, lighter guns, even better for smaller framed people.

IMHO...buy the best you can afford ! Go with a reputable name gun. Gonna cost you more, but if you buy once you cry once.
Some good shape used ones around in a few places...you just need to look every day, cuz the great deals are gobbled up quickly.
These guns hold their value pretty good to, so if life changes and you decide to sell out, you won't loose much. You never mentioned caliber, so I'm assuming12 ga. Single barrel semi auto gun will be lighter and easier to swing for you and her.

Beretta A400 with the recoil reduction is a very popular one with a lot of men AND women, also has a legend of problem free shooting reputation !! Several of my squad mates shoot them...from the blue "smurfette" model to the newest ones!
Biggest drawback with semi's is picking up your empties..lol The new MOJO "Pic-up Stick" will save your back a ton !! Winchester SX3 Sporting is another good semi auto made for Sport shooting, I have one, also have a Browning Maxus Stalker that my SIL uses solely for sporting clays and skeet ! Never an issue in 4 years of shooting lots of targets !! Keep them clean and they run like new ! I usually shoot my Browning 625 O\U and my new Fabarm N2...also great guns.

There's LOTS to choose from in semi's and O'U's....but buying a shotgun made for sporting shoots is your best bet. The others just won't hold up to any amount of shooting. Ultimately, your wallet is gonna decide WHAT you'll be buying...talk to it ;) ;)

** OP...few things to consider.
To shoot 2 different disciplines..ie..skeet and trap you will need different chokes for each one. Easily changed out with a semi or O/U . Semi-auto....You can get by with 1 full and 1 skeet. Now with an O/U...you'll need 2 of each.

Trap can be shot as all singles...or it can be doubles also. Your club will dictate that. If you're gonna be shooting both , you'll need a gun that will hold two shells and should have full choke capability. This is where changeable chokes is advantageous.

The game of skeet always has doubles, and is shot with more open chokes...ie..skeet, improved cylinder. Again, changeable chokes has it's advantages.

Keep an eye out on the EE here...the gun dealer also always has a bunch of used sporting guns...give his site a look every day or two. His inventory changes sometimes in hours.
Hope you and her continue on with your skeet / trap, and who knows, maybe some...sporting clays shooting in the future (it's the most fun you can have with your clothes on !!)

Best of luck with it...the fun is only beginning for you guys ! Keep us in the loop...I'd like to know how you made out and what you decided.
Cheers...Kevin
 
Okay, I've shot trap competitively for 40 years. There are a few things to consider:
1) Gun fit.
To succeed at the game you will need a gun that fits you - regardless of the make or model. Gun fit is having a gun that has the right length of pull (trigger to butt pad), drop at the comb (where your cheek rests) and drop at the heel (at the butt pad). This will help you see down the barrel properly. Shotguns don't have rear sights like a rifle, so gun fit is important. Proper gun fit puts your eye in the right place every time and that is effectively your rear sight. There are other fine points once the basics are covered, but these are important.
When people say they out-shoot everyone at the club with a $200 rusty field gun, perhaps they can (but I doubt it - ask them their average scores in competition. Most won't be competitive shooters). If they do, indeed, shoot well then rest assured that the gun fits them. If it didn't they would struggle. Many serious shooters struggle with gun fit even when they have an expensive fully-adjustable gun because they don't know how to adjust it. I would recommend talking to people at the club and getting their advice. Talk to all sorts of people and find out what they use. Most will be more than happy to help you out. I am sure someone there will help you get a gun that fits you or modify one so that it does.
Also, if you are substantially taller than your partner (I believe you said she is 5'1"), then your gun will probably not fit her well and she will likely struggle to shoot well with it. Poor gun fit leads to more felt recoil which leads to poor shooting and eventually to flinching, etc.

2) Quality.
My advice would be to avoid the cheap Turkish guns or worn out beaters. This has all to do with volume rather than style. A competitive trapshooter will often shoot 600 rounds on a weekend. That is more than many hunters will shoot through their gun in a decade. Most guns you see in a store are not made for this volume. One of the reasons the expensive guns cost so much is because they are made for high volume shooting. My Perazzi has well over 250,000 rounds through it (not all by me, I'm the second owner - I've probably put about 100k through it). It has been rebuilt more than once. That said, you don't need to buy the most expensive at the beginning. If you stick with this game, you will likely own more than one trap gun over the years. Look at good used trap guns. There are many out there to get you started. A used Browning BT-99 is a good option - just make sure it isn't worn out.

3) Chokes and other gear.
Many people shoot a full choke for everything. Many others have choke tubes. It will probably be easier for you to begin with a gun with choke tubes. A modified choke is good to begin with at the 16-yard line. Go tighter as you go further back. That said, a fixed choke will make you learn the gun and your abilities a bit more quickly as you won't be faffing about changing chokes all the time and worrying if you have the optimal setup. The silly hats, padded jackets and coloured glasses do help, but don't worry about them at the beginning. They can become helpful once you are trying to gain that one or two targets per hundred that will put you in the winners circle. Make sure you have good hearing and eye protection, though. It only takes a minute to put them on and they will save your eyes and ears. Consider prescription shooting glasses if you need corrective lenses - vision is all important in trapshooting. You can't hit what you can't see.

4) Over-under vs. semi vs. single-barrel.
This is largely a matter of preference. Many people use a single barrel gun (i.e. Browning BT99 or similar) for singles and have an O/U for doubles if they shoot them. Others use an O/U for everything.

5) Practice.
Do lots of it. It's the one thing that will help you shoot better!

My thoughts over coffee this morning. Good luck to you and welcome to trapshooting - The only game more frustrating than golf!
 
To answer your questions, don't fixate on chokes. Full over mod or imp mod is fine for trap. I shoot imp mod all the way back to 25 with no problem. Buy a inexpensive Churchill 206 or something similar and go out and shoot. Consider a semiauto, they're cheap but have their own challenges.
Buy something that shoots twice if you want to shoot skeet or doubles, or sporting clays for that matter. Once you get the hang of it and shoot a while you will learn what kind of gun you need.
Advice up front and personal is far better than internet advice. If your wife wants to shoot, buy her a gun too. I have shot with husband and wife teams who share the gun and it never works out. They always end up buying another gun.
Franchi makes a good gun and the early Stoegers weren't too bad. The newer ones seem to have problems, I can't say for sure.
Personally, I would spend the money on a used Browning or Beretta for the resale value but that's up to you. You will spend most of your money on targets and ammo anyway, the gun is the cheapest thing you will buy.
 
Your buddy is wrong about chokes for trap. Mod is fine for 16 yard as long as you don't take all day to make the shot but if you do take all day to shoot then use the top/Full barrel and when you get all the way back to the 27 yard line then Full will work well for you. On doubles trap, your Mod and full fixed chokes will be ideal!
Fixed chokes are actually the opposite of problematic in that they can't be lost, shot loose or become stuck in the barrel. If you want to shoot skeet with your fixed choke gun then Mod/Full is a lot tighter than ideal so then changeable chokes would be more suitable. You could also look for a fixed choke gun with open chokes for use at the skeet field.
If you like pump guns on the trap range then I'd be looking for a used Winchester M12 or Remington 870 for under $1k and you will have a gun that will last a long time. Remember that semi auto's on the trap line are sometimes not popular when they are spitting hulls at the shooter on your right.
 
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I'm a newbie to trap shooting myself.

I currently use a modified choke on my Citori Crossover. I've been told it's better to practice using a full choke as it helps ensure proper form/technique. I'm looking into buying a single barrel BT-99 as a dedicated trap gun. But if you're not sure of which clay sport you want to do, maybe look into the Citori CX (successor to my Citori Crossover) which is supposed to be versatile for all clay sports.

https://www.browning.com/products/firearms/shotguns/citori/citori-cx.html

Also, highly recommend Leo Harrison's video on trap shooting. I was really struggling (shooting single digits) and had no idea what I was doing wrong. After watching his video, my scores immediately went to the high teens.

edit: also, usually longer barrels are preferred for trap and shorter barrels for skeet and sporting clays. happy medium might be 30" barrels?
 
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My trap gun is a Churchill Monarch 12 g O/U made in Italy. Payed 475.00 for it from Cdn Tire over 35 years ago. It is a field gun, has full/mod fixed choke, 28in barrels. Probably doesn't fit right. Managed three 25 straight this year so far. Nothing is worn out yet, but then I only shoot 3 rounds per week. Since you're not a competition shooter (yet?) don't worry about wearing it out too soon.
 
It takes a lot of rounds to wear out a trap gun. What usually happens with the Turkish guns is that something breaks and parts don't exist. The advantage of Brownings, Remingtons, Berettas etc etc is that parts are available when you need them. Not really somehting you need to worry about when you buy a new gun but it effects resale value.
 
Either mod or full will work fine for trap ,but for skeet you want skeet or improved cylinder. As has been mentioned skeet includes doubles, so O/U or semi auto is ideal, but clean rounds can be achieved by a skilled shooter with a pump. A lower end semi auto like an SX-4, will work fine for all clay sports if it fits, fit is a huge priority. I would avoid the $500-600 semi autos, and the sub $1000 O/U guns , as they often aren't reliable, and parts can be an issue.
 
I guess you first need to decide how 'hooked' you are planning to get... and how much $$ you are willing to throw at this new hobby.
- Also worth noting: How competitive are you and is it important to "fit" in the crowd.

In the long run, the $ for the gun will probably be the least expensive part of the hobby
 
Well some good info and some not so good info on this one
First it is apparent that you have no intentions of becoming a registered target shooter so that will elemanate 75% of these answers
Your needs would be a quality gun field model you do not need a trap stock to shoot 16 yard singles and for sure not for skeet or sporting clays
You need rdmoveable chokes
Spend 2k-2.5 k on a good o/u
No Turkish junk no matter how good your friend says it is they are less than good quality
A nice field grade over under and you will be fine or possibly a good semi a good semi is 2-2.5 k
 
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