Trap gun confusion solution - oh my!

I don’t take trap and skeet too seriously but like to do both every now and then. I picked up a Turkish semi auto 20ga Weatherby Element in walnut since it seemed to be about the only thing in my price range that fits me really well and looks good too. I also picked up a shell catcher so I am not throwing hulls at the shooter beside me who takes it quite seriously. If you don’t want to spend too much and want something to get you started a friend of mine shoots a Canuck over under with a couple barrels. He is quite happy with it. Also if you know a good gun smith they can install some thin wall chokes for a couple hundred dollars if you go with a used gun. Although I can’t really see myself and my wife sharing the same gun due to our size difference. If the club you want to shoot at is anything like where I go just about anyone will let you try thier gun and we also have quite a few new ladies joining to shoot trap. Most of them use BT99’s. I can really only suggest trying as many guns as the both of you can.
 
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kevin g said:
Will your partner be shooting along side of you at the same time ( if so, now you're needing 2 guns..lol )
or just every now and then taking turns, with your guidance ?
To share a gun, and to be easier on her small frame I'd suggest a reputable semi-auto with a few different chokes.
Both 12 ga and 20 ga are very viable options for either discipline. I shoot with a lot of folks who have gone to solely 20 ga for all their shooting needs...just for the recoil factor alone, plus, they're smaller, lighter guns, even better for smaller framed people.

IMHO...buy the best you can afford ! Go with a reputable name gun. Gonna cost you more, but if you buy once you cry once.
Some good shape used ones around in a few places...you just need to look every day, cuz the great deals are gobbled up quickly.
These guns hold their value pretty good to, so if life changes and you decide to sell out, you won't loose much. You never mentioned caliber, so I'm assuming12 ga. Single barrel semi auto gun will be lighter and easier to swing for you and her.

Beretta A400 with the recoil reduction is a very popular one with a lot of men AND women, also has a legend of problem free shooting reputation !! Several of my squad mates shoot them...from the blue "smurfette" model to the newest ones!
Biggest drawback with semi's is picking up your empties..lol The new MOJO "Pic-up Stick" will save your back a ton !! Winchester SX3 Sporting is another good semi auto made for Sport shooting, I have one, also have a Browning Maxus Stalker that my SIL uses solely for sporting clays and skeet ! Never an issue in 4 years of shooting lots of targets !! Keep them clean and they run like new ! I usually shoot my Browning 625 O\U and my new Fabarm N2...also great guns.

There's LOTS to choose from in semi's and O'U's....but buying a shotgun made for sporting shoots is your best bet. The others just won't hold up to any amount of shooting. Ultimately, your wallet is gonna decide WHAT you'll be buying...talk to it ;) ;)

** OP...few things to consider.
To shoot 2 different disciplines..ie..skeet and trap you will need different chokes for each one. Easily changed out with a semi or O/U . Semi-auto....You can get by with 1 full and 1 skeet. Now with an O/U...you'll need 2 of each.

Trap can be shot as all singles...or it can be doubles also. Your club will dictate that. If you're gonna be shooting both , you'll need a gun that will hold two shells and should have full choke capability. This is where changeable chokes is advantageous.

The game of skeet always has doubles, and is shot with more open chokes...ie..skeet, improved cylinder. Again, changeable chokes has it's advantages.

Keep an eye out on the EE here...the gun dealer also always has a bunch of used sporting guns...give his site a look every day or two. His inventory changes sometimes in hours.
Hope you and her continue on with your skeet / trap, and who knows, maybe some...sporting clays shooting in the future (it's the most fun you can have with your clothes on !!)

Best of luck with it...the fun is only beginning for you guys ! Keep us in the loop...I'd like to know how you made out and what you decided.
Cheers...Kevin
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Thank you Kevin for your thorough response! Well officially she is still working on her license lol but yes…it is becoming an expensive hobby lol. I probably won’t be able to get away with just 1. I do know when she was trying the O/U she felt it was a bit heavy - she seemed to have a good experience with a Remmington 1100. I should have stayed with just rifles lol.
 
Tharjoe said:
Okay, I've shot trap competitively for 40 years. There are a few things to consider:
1) Gun fit.
To succeed at the game you will need a gun that fits you - regardless of the make or model. Gun fit is having a gun that has the right length of pull (trigger to butt pad), drop at the comb (where your cheek rests) and drop at the heel (at the butt pad). This will help you see down the barrel properly. Shotguns don't have rear sights like a rifle, so gun fit is important. Proper gun fit puts your eye in the right place every time and that is effectively your rear sight. There are other fine points once the basics are covered, but these are important.
When people say they out-shoot everyone at the club with a $200 rusty field gun, perhaps they can (but I doubt it - ask them their average scores in competition. Most won't be competitive shooters). If they do, indeed, shoot well then rest assured that the gun fits them. If it didn't they would struggle. Many serious shooters struggle with gun fit even when they have an expensive fully-adjustable gun because they don't know how to adjust it. I would recommend talking to people at the club and getting their advice. Talk to all sorts of people and find out what they use. Most will be more than happy to help you out. I am sure someone there will help you get a gun that fits you or modify one so that it does.
Also, if you are substantially taller than your partner (I believe you said she is 5'1"), then your gun will probably not fit her well and she will likely struggle to shoot well with it. Poor gun fit leads to more felt recoil which leads to poor shooting and eventually to flinching, etc.

2) Quality.
My advice would be to avoid the cheap Turkish guns or worn out beaters. This has all to do with volume rather than style. A competitive trapshooter will often shoot 600 rounds on a weekend. That is more than many hunters will shoot through their gun in a decade. Most guns you see in a store are not made for this volume. One of the reasons the expensive guns cost so much is because they are made for high volume shooting. My Perazzi has well over 250,000 rounds through it (not all by me, I'm the second owner - I've probably put about 100k through it). It has been rebuilt more than once. That said, you don't need to buy the most expensive at the beginning. If you stick with this game, you will likely own more than one trap gun over the years. Look at good used trap guns. There are many out there to get you started. A used Browning BT-99 is a good option - just make sure it isn't worn out.

3) Chokes and other gear.
Many people shoot a full choke for everything. Many others have choke tubes. It will probably be easier for you to begin with a gun with choke tubes. A modified choke is good to begin with at the 16-yard line. Go tighter as you go further back. That said, a fixed choke will make you learn the gun and your abilities a bit more quickly as you won't be faffing about changing chokes all the time and worrying if you have the optimal setup. The silly hats, padded jackets and coloured glasses do help, but don't worry about them at the beginning. They can become helpful once you are trying to gain that one or two targets per hundred that will put you in the winners circle. Make sure you have good hearing and eye protection, though. It only takes a minute to put them on and they will save your eyes and ears. Consider prescription shooting glasses if you need corrective lenses - vision is all important in trapshooting. You can't hit what you can't see.

4) Over-under vs. semi vs. single-barrel.
This is largely a matter of preference. Many people use a single barrel gun (i.e. Browning BT99 or similar) for singles and have an O/U for doubles if they shoot them. Others use an O/U for everything.

5) Practice.
Do lots of it. It's the one thing that will help you shoot better!

My thoughts over coffee this morning. Good luck to you and welcome to trapshooting - The only game more frustrating than golf!
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Lol - more frustrating than Golf lol - that could be a problem. The last time I went golfing I lost 3 dozen golf balls, lost a driver in the trees and bent an iron lol.

Thank you sir for sharing :)

Stupid question - how can a layperson determine if a gun is worn out? I mean a rilfe has a rifled bore and you can kind of see how it was maintained or not...are you looking for looseness or "play" in the action? Obviously you can usually identify a gun that has some strong wear and tear on it through a beat up stock and dings/scratches on the barrel and such...or tire imprints, etc.
 
Good question. There are a lot of parts in a shotgun that are not obviously worn out until you shoot the gun a few times. Most shotguns with a lot of rounds through them loosen up. Open an O/U and if it drops open and cocks itself, its a good bet that that gun has shot a lot. Not necessarily worn out but well used. Most pump guns don't get that much use but dedicated trap and skeet guns often do. The best way to tell without taking it apart is whether it is well taken care of or not. A gun that looks like a piece of sh!t, will be.
 
Welcome to the world of trap! It's quite a rewarding shooting sport, and superior to all other shooting sports including skeet imo.
  1. Is fixed choke problematic? Is full choke desirable?
    1. Modified (and Improved Modified chokes for skilled shooters) are what are commonly used for American Trap. Full choke isn't recommended. You want some spread to your pattern.
  2. If I bought a O/U that had a fixed modified and full choke - does that work for trap/skeep or is it really a "bird" gun?
    1. That's perfect! Mod and Full are the bread and butter of Trap. Whether that be singles, doubles, or my favorite: Olympic Trap. Full and Mod are the perfect combo and is what I run for competitive Olympic trap.
  3. If my partner is only interested in trap shooting, would a single shot shotgun be acceptable or frowned upon? She is only 5'1 and I obviously don't need it to be like a mule kicking her.
    1. It would be fine if the gun fits her well. If they are recoil shy, 20 gauge can also be a good option.
  4. Should I simply pay more money to have a gun that I can change the choke (vs. fixed choke) for trap/skeet?
    1. Not necessarily, Full and Mod fixed choke is fine. I rarely change my chokes if at all.
  5. My buddy has a Turkish Churchill O/U and claims it works great and has held up. Are all Turkish guns (especially O/U) problematic? The forums are not kind with Turkish guns and I don't want a $1k paperweight if I can spend a bit more to get something that will hold up.
    1. I'm not a fan of Turkish options after seeing their horrendous quality. Avoid TriStar.
  6. What about Stoger and Franchi? I am seeing some weird names for O/U that appear to be Italian so would you avoid them too?
    1. You get what you pay for... You can find Beretta S55s for like $1000 on intersurplus and they would be pretty reliable. For your price range I'd be looking at Miroku/Winchester/Browning Citori.

Hope this helps
 
tonykimatpl said:
Welcome to the world of trap! It's quite a rewarding shooting sport, and superior to all other shooting sports including skeet imo.
  1. Is fixed choke problematic? Is full choke desirable?
    1. Modified (and Improved Modified chokes for skilled shooters) are what are commonly used for American Trap. Full choke isn't recommended. You want some spread to your pattern.
  2. If I bought a O/U that had a fixed modified and full choke - does that work for trap/skeep or is it really a "bird" gun?
    1. That's perfect! Mod and Full are the bread and butter of Trap. Whether that be singles, doubles, or my favorite: Olympic Trap. Full and Mod are the perfect combo and is what I run for competitive Olympic trap.
  3. If my partner is only interested in trap shooting, would a single shot shotgun be acceptable or frowned upon? She is only 5'1 and I obviously don't need it to be like a mule kicking her.
    1. It would be fine if the gun fits her well. If they are recoil shy, 20 gauge can also be a good option.
  4. Should I simply pay more money to have a gun that I can change the choke (vs. fixed choke) for trap/skeet?
    1. Not necessarily, Full and Mod fixed choke is fine. I rarely change my chokes if at all.
  5. My buddy has a Turkish Churchill O/U and claims it works great and has held up. Are all Turkish guns (especially O/U) problematic? The forums are not kind with Turkish guns and I don't want a $1k paperweight if I can spend a bit more to get something that will hold up.
    1. I'm not a fan of Turkish options after seeing their horrendous quality. Avoid TriStar.
  6. What about Stoger and Franchi? I am seeing some weird names for O/U that appear to be Italian so would you avoid them too?
    1. You get what you pay for... You can find Beretta S55s for like $1000 on intersurplus and they would be pretty reliable. For your price range I'd be looking at Miroku/Winchester/Browning Citori.

Hope this helps
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The OP keeps mentioning trap/skeet yet you keep ignoring the skeet. A fixed choke mod/full shotgun is fine for trap, but a very poor choice for skeet. As for trap being superior to all other clay sports, that is typical for many trap shooters, they don't do well at skeet or sporting clays, so they tend to just avoid them, and pretend that they don't exist. In reality, sporting clays incorporates all of the components of trap and skeet and much more, making it far superior to trap or skeet.
 
stubblejumper said:
The OP keeps mentioning trap/skeet yet you keep ignoring the skeet. A fixed choke mod/full shotgun is fine for trap, but a very poor choice for skeet. As for trap being superior to all other clay sports, that is typical for many trap shooters, they don't do well at skeet or sporting clays, so they tend to just avoid them, and pretend that they don't exist. In reality, sporting clays incorporates all of the components of trap and skeet and much more, making it far superior to trap or skeet.
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Yes, my response is very clearly tailored to trap... I think I made it clear within my first sentence that it's the only thing I care for.
 
No comment on skeet. My answer to his questions are tailored to trap, which OP seems to shoot more of anyways. Skeet would require a whole new setup. Something with shorter barrels and skeet chokes. Can't really shoot both with the same gun for optimal results.
 
tonykimatpl said:
No comment on skeet. My answer to his questions are tailored to trap, which OP seems to shoot more of anyways. Skeet would require a whole new setup. Something with shorter barrels and skeet chokes. Can't really shoot both with the same gun for optimal results.
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Actually as far as skeet goes barrel lengths have changed. Most shooters are now using O/U skeet guns with 30-32" barrels. Serious competitors rarely shoot both trap and skeet, but a recreational shooter can easily get by with the same gun for trap, skeet and sporting clays , as long as it has interchangeable chokes. And that is what the OP seems to be interested in, being able to shoot multiple disciplines.
 
pirranna said:
Lol - more frustrating than Golf lol - that could be a problem. The last time I went golfing I lost 3 dozen golf balls, lost a driver in the trees and bent an iron lol.

Thank you sir for sharing :)

Stupid question - how can a layperson determine if a gun is worn out? I mean a rilfe has a rifled bore and you can kind of see how it was maintained or not...are you looking for looseness or "play" in the action? Obviously you can usually identify a gun that has some strong wear and tear on it through a beat up stock and dings/scratches on the barrel and such...or tire imprints, etc.
Click to expand...
To really know if a gun is worn out or not, take it to a gunsmith. On a break-action gun a key thing to watch for is whether the barrels wobble on the frame when the gun is closed. The British would call that "off face". It is an indicator that the gun is worn. Not all guns wear at the same rate, either. It all depends on how they are maintained and treated. I see some people absolutely slam their guns shut every time they close the action. Their guns will be off face in no time. A good gun will close easily and fully without force (okay - some are stiff when new, but still, don't slam them shut).

Other parts can break without warning. Other posters here have noted parts availability. I have a nice Italian Gamba trap combo (no, not "Renata Gamba". Just "Gamba" - a different company and a different gun). It sits in the safe as parts are entirely unobtanium. It was not a good buy.

Most guns can be fixed if you are willing to pay enough. Buying a worn gun with the intent of getting it fixed is probably not a good approach.
If possible, ask the skilled, high-volume shooters at your club to evaluate a gun you might be interested in buying. Someone there should have the knowledge to help you out.

As for the skeet chokes issue, I can't speak a lot to skeet as I have rarely shot it. That said, the targets in skeet are typically shot at much closer than in trapshooting, so more open chokes are desirable - usually skeet or improved cylinder chokes. These will give a wider pattern than full or modified chokes. Many of the shots in skeet involve a lot more gun motion and therefore most skeet guns have shorter barrels that make the gun easier and quicker to swing. Simply put, a skeet gun is not a trap gun, though you can have fun shooting either game with either style of gun. If you want to become competitive, you will likely need separate guns. If all you intend to do is dabble, then a field gun with a 28" barrel and choke tubes would be a good compromise - not perfect for either, but in the middle. Whatever you buy, just make sure it fits you.
Edit: Stubblejumper states that current skeet shooters use longer barrels. I was not aware of that. My knowledge of skeet is somewhat dated.
 
Tharjoe said:
To really know if a gun is worn out or not, take it to a gunsmith. On a break-action gun a key thing to watch for is whether the barrels wobble on the frame when the gun is closed. The British would call that "off face". It is an indicator that the gun is worn. Not all guns wear at the same rate, either. It all depends on how they are maintained and treated. I see some people absolutely slam their guns shut every time they close the action. Their guns will be off face in no time. A good gun will close easily and fully without force (okay - some are stiff when new, but still, don't slam them shut).

Other parts can break without warning. Other posters here have noted parts availability. I have a nice Italian Gamba trap combo (no, not "Renata Gamba". Just "Gamba" - a different company and a different gun). It sits in the safe as parts are entirely unobtanium. It was not a good buy.

Most guns can be fixed if you are willing to pay enough. Buying a worn gun with the intent of getting it fixed is probably not a good approach.
If possible, ask the skilled, high-volume shooters at your club to evaluate a gun you might be interested in buying. Someone there should have the knowledge to help you out.

As for the skeet chokes issue, I can't speak a lot to skeet as I have rarely shot it. That said, the targets in skeet are typically shot at much closer than in trapshooting, so more open chokes are desirable - usually skeet or improved cylinder chokes. These will give a wider pattern than full or modified chokes. Many of the shots in skeet involve a lot more gun motion and therefore most skeet guns have shorter barrels that make the gun easier and quicker to swing. Simply put, a skeet gun is not a trap gun, though you can have fun shooting either game with either style of gun. If you want to become competitive, you will likely need separate guns. If all you intend to do is dabble, then a field gun with a 28" barrel and choke tubes would be a good compromise - not perfect for either, but in the middle. Whatever you buy, just make sure it fits you.
Edit: Stubblejumper states that current skeet shooters use longer barrels. I was not aware of that. My knowledge of skeet is somewhat dated.
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I started shooting skeet in the 1980s, and the most common barrel length was 28", but there were still some shooters shooting 26". If you shoot skeet these days, the more serious shooters shoot 30" or 32" barrels.
As far as wear goes, look at the top lever on an O/U, if the lever is left of center, on a right handed gun, there is significant wear.
 
I use my hunting guns for trap and skeet, most are typically between 26" and 28", which is considered short these days for a clay target gun.
However, I only shoot both trap and skeet these days to keep in shape for hunting birds. So it doesn't matter much , same as the chokes .
My main gun is CYL/CYL however and it does Make a difference on trap birds at times , you have to get onto them FAST! LOL
Cat
 
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stubblejumper said:
The OP keeps mentioning trap/skeet yet you keep ignoring the skeet. A fixed choke mod/full shotgun is fine for trap, but a very poor choice for skeet. As for trap being superior to all other clay sports, that is typical for many trap shooters, they don't do well at skeet or sporting clays, so they tend to just avoid them, and pretend that they don't exist. In reality, sporting clays incorporates all of the components of trap and skeet and much more, making it far superior to trap or skeet.
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What a crock of ####. Good shooters are good shooters many of the top sporting clay shooters in Alberta also shoot trap and top trap shooters shoot sporting clay as well.

A handful of guys consistently win in all disciplines the rest of the parking lot is just donations to option money.
 
JIMMY 808 said:
What a crock of ####. Good shooters are good shooters many of the top sporting clay shooters in Alberta also shoot trap and top trap shooters shoot sporting clay as well.

A handful of guys consistently win in all disciplines the rest of the parking lot is just donations to option money.
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At the clubs that I belong to, or have belonged to, the trap shooters tended to shoot only trap, and rarely if ever shot skeet. Some of the skeet shooters would shoot trap on occasion.
 
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tonykimatpl said:
Welcome to the world of trap! It's quite a rewarding shooting sport, and superior to all other shooting sports including skeet imo.
  1. Is fixed choke problematic? Is full choke desirable?
    1. Modified (and Improved Modified chokes for skilled shooters) are what are commonly used for American Trap. Full choke isn't recommended. You want some spread to your pattern.
  2. If I bought a O/U that had a fixed modified and full choke - does that work for trap/skeep or is it really a "bird" gun?
    1. That's perfect! Mod and Full are the bread and butter of Trap. Whether that be singles, doubles, or my favorite: Olympic Trap. Full and Mod are the perfect combo and is what I run for competitive Olympic trap.
  3. If my partner is only interested in trap shooting, would a single shot shotgun be acceptable or frowned upon? She is only 5'1 and I obviously don't need it to be like a mule kicking her.
    1. It would be fine if the gun fits her well. If they are recoil shy, 20 gauge can also be a good option.
  4. Should I simply pay more money to have a gun that I can change the choke (vs. fixed choke) for trap/skeet?
    1. Not necessarily, Full and Mod fixed choke is fine. I rarely change my chokes if at all.
  5. My buddy has a Turkish Churchill O/U and claims it works great and has held up. Are all Turkish guns (especially O/U) problematic? The forums are not kind with Turkish guns and I don't want a $1k paperweight if I can spend a bit more to get something that will hold up.
    1. I'm not a fan of Turkish options after seeing their horrendous quality. Avoid TriStar.
  6. What about Stoger and Franchi? I am seeing some weird names for O/U that appear to be Italian so would you avoid them too?
    1. You get what you pay for... You can find Beretta S55s for like $1000 on intersurplus and they would be pretty reliable. For your price range I'd be looking at Miroku/Winchester/Browning Citori.

Hope this helps
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Thank you Tony for taking the time to respond - I appreciate your sage wisdom :)
 
Tharjoe said:
To really know if a gun is worn out or not, take it to a gunsmith. On a break-action gun a key thing to watch for is whether the barrels wobble on the frame when the gun is closed. The British would call that "off face". It is an indicator that the gun is worn. Not all guns wear at the same rate, either. It all depends on how they are maintained and treated. I see some people absolutely slam their guns shut every time they close the action. Their guns will be off face in no time. A good gun will close easily and fully without force (okay - some are stiff when new, but still, don't slam them shut).

Other parts can break without warning. Other posters here have noted parts availability. I have a nice Italian Gamba trap combo (no, not "Renata Gamba". Just "Gamba" - a different company and a different gun). It sits in the safe as parts are entirely unobtanium. It was not a good buy.

Most guns can be fixed if you are willing to pay enough. Buying a worn gun with the intent of getting it fixed is probably not a good approach.
If possible, ask the skilled, high-volume shooters at your club to evaluate a gun you might be interested in buying. Someone there should have the knowledge to help you out.

As for the skeet chokes issue, I can't speak a lot to skeet as I have rarely shot it. That said, the targets in skeet are typically shot at much closer than in trapshooting, so more open chokes are desirable - usually skeet or improved cylinder chokes. These will give a wider pattern than full or modified chokes. Many of the shots in skeet involve a lot more gun motion and therefore most skeet guns have shorter barrels that make the gun easier and quicker to swing. Simply put, a skeet gun is not a trap gun, though you can have fun shooting either game with either style of gun. If you want to become competitive, you will likely need separate guns. If all you intend to do is dabble, then a field gun with a 28" barrel and choke tubes would be a good compromise - not perfect for either, but in the middle. Whatever you buy, just make sure it fits you.
Edit: Stubblejumper states that current skeet shooters use longer barrels. I was not aware of that. My knowledge of skeet is somewhat dated.
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Makes sense with the break-action "wobble". I've always babied my firearms per se but completely get people "man-handling" them and slapping things shut/forcing things that likely could fatigue metal over time.

I know people keep saying used Brownings and Beretta....but realistically if, say, you pick up a 50's one - what are the chances you can actually buy parts for it since it isn't in production? Is it then like a "Browning or Beretta * - less than 25 years old?

I don't see a high volume industry like OEM car parts for collector cars. I know that the range folk have repeatedly said O/U's as "less crap to break" essentially and a semi-auto is substantially more complicated. I guess with the advance of metalurgy and 3d printing/CNC, etc (as well you can 3d print Rolls Royce turbofan parts) it may not be an issue?
 
If buying 1 gun for hunting trap and skeet I'd look for a sporting version. The stock comb will be more parallel and it'll likely be a lil bit heavier to soak up recoil but not too heavy to take a field for hunting
You will hear a totally different opinion from a serious dedicated clay shooter than someone who just enjoys general shooting

Find a gun that fits you well and points where you look and have fun. A percentage of the core pattern will always be on target no matter what the choke is.
Tighter chokes work fine for skeet if you can accept that you may miss a clay or 2 because of it. Wen you hit a skeet target with a full choke and get that dust cloud in the sky it may make up for the lost target. I shoot some vintage sxs guns that are fixed f/m and my scores are the same as using more open chokes. I do shoot skeet more often than other games though

If on a budget a semi auto can work for all sports. You should get a shell catcher for trap or at least use a rubber band to stop the hull from ejecting
I think all modern semi autos come threaded for chokes. Generally a modern 3" chambered gun will cycle target loads just fine.
These are my thoughts
 
JIMMY 808 said:
What a crock of ####. Good shooters are good shooters many of the top sporting clay shooters in Alberta also shoot trap and top trap shooters shoot sporting clay as well.

A handful of guys consistently win in all disciplines the rest of the parking lot is just donations to option money.
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you are correct
There was an American fella up here a few years back that was a contractor for KBR.
He had a patch from Nevada ( I think it was) State winner in 28 gauge sporting clays .
He normally shot skeet but shot trap occasionally as well.
One day I came up behind him when he was on trap station 1 and passed him my Berreta muzzle loader " Here, try this"
"How do I shoot it?"
" right hammer front trigger, left hammer back trigger. It's an over-under Ron, just swing it like your Kreigoff"
First bird was a straight away and he broke it.
Second bird was a hard left hander and he crushed it hard!
He was a bit amused when Asking about the chokes and I said
" Cylinder - Cylinder".
I have seen the same scenario more than a few times over the years .
Cat
 
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