Poor accuracy , need help.

[jamesharrison]

You may want to try increasing your powder charge in, say 0.2 gr. increases.

Remember, even if those loads shoot bug-hole size groups in other rifles, that doesn't mean ca-ca in another. Each barrel is a law unto itself.

Also, as mentioned, when your rifle is set up on its bi-pod, can you still slip a playing card all along the barrel inletting?

If you can, then try this: coat the barrel below the stock with a black / blue [colour does not matter; just that it contrasts with your stock colour] permanent marker. Then shoot a group. Remove the stock. If there is any black marks on the stock, or it is worn off the barrel, you have your answer; stock flex. What I used to do for this was buy some redi-rod; dremel out the bedding until you can fit 2 pieces of redi-rod in a V [narrow end of V is at the fore-end] in the barrel channel NOT touching the barrel. Now epoxy that in. Voila, no more stock flex.

Finally, what is the round count in the barrel? Even if it is relatively low, was it shot too fast [HEAT!] at some point to shoot the throat out?

I presume the crown is good?

Is the threaded muzzle protector tight? Have you tried removing it to see if that makes a difference?

How clean / fouled is your barrel?

I presume the brass is all 1 brand, & perhaps 1 lot?

What neck tension [on your brass] are you running?

Have you cleaned your bolt? When you do, remove the spring & roll it on the bench. If it is "wonky" [scientific term for bent! ;-) ] that could be your problem.

 

[time4t]

OP, I feel your pain and I have BTDT. At a certain point, one must ask the simple question of whether or not it is cost /time effective to throw expensive resources and precious time at a project when your "wheels are spinning". Some rifle and loading combinations end up as turds; others are stellar ; and most fall in between somewhere. regards t4t.

 

[Kazman1960]

You may want to try increasing your powder charge in, say 0.2 gr. increases.

Remember, even if those loads shoot bug-hole size groups in other rifles, that doesn't mean ca-ca in another. Each barrel is a law unto itself.

Also, as mentioned, when your rifle is set up on its bi-pod, can you still slip a playing card all along the barrel inletting?

If you can, then try this: coat the barrel below the stock with a black / blue [colour does not matter; just that it contrasts with your stock colour] permanent marker. Then shoot a group. Remove the stock. If there is any black marks on the stock, or it is worn off the barrel, you have your answer; stock flex. What I used to do for this was buy some redi-rod; dremel out the bedding until you can fit 2 pieces of redi-rod in a V [narrow end of V is at the fore-end] in the barrel channel NOT touching the barrel. Now epoxy that in. Voila, no more stock flex.

Finally, what is the round count in the barrel? Even if it is relatively low, was it shot too fast [HEAT!] at some point to shoot the throat out?

I presume the crown is good?

Is the threaded muzzle protector tight? Have you tried removing it to see if that makes a difference?

How clean / fouled is your barrel?

I presume the brass is all 1 brand, & perhaps 1 lot?

What neck tension [on your brass] are you running?

Have you cleaned your bolt? When you do, remove the spring & roll it on the bench. If it is "wonky" [scientific term for bent! ;-) ] that could be your problem.

I could see any or all of these making a difference if there was a change it what i do , brass is all different and always has been , cleaning the barrel is the same each time i shoot . I shoot a couple of sighters then 1x5 shot group and use the next rifle until its rifle #1 turn again so at least 20 minutes for cool down. I do have a muzzle brake on the barrel but its always been there . I do have a "pet load " for this rifle but it didn't help . I tried again today . I used yet another scope from one of my other rifles . I did try a trick from one of the other comments . I tightened up the front stock bolt way higher then the rear bolt . The rifle did manage to shoot a 1.005 group of five rounds at 105 yards. Nothing impressive for sure but about half of what it was shooting last week . Im going to play some more with those stock screws as that just may be something .

 

[70m4h4wk]

If tightening the stock bolts helped, maybe try changing the stock pressure?

Get some card stock or cereal boxes or something that you can slide between the barrel and the stock so you get consistent pressure along the length of the stock.

 

[Potashminer]

Your latest post mentions a muzzle brake - I bought a used rifle and removed that brake - I was astounded how much hard carbon had built up within the brake and on the rifle's muzzle - that might be what is happening on your unit - if you had it shooting acceptably to you and now it is no longer doing that. Cleaning out baked-on hard carbon is usually not a minor thing to do

 

[Crack]

You may want to try increasing your powder charge in, say 0.2 gr. increases.

Remember, even if those loads shoot bug-hole size groups in other rifles, that doesn't mean ca-ca in another. Each barrel is a law unto itself.

Also, as mentioned, when your rifle is set up on its bi-pod, can you still slip a playing card all along the barrel inletting?

If you can, then try this: coat the barrel below the stock with a black / blue [colour does not matter; just that it contrasts with your stock colour] permanent marker. Then shoot a group. Remove the stock. If there is any black marks on the stock, or it is worn off the barrel, you have your answer; stock flex. What I used to do for this was buy some redi-rod; dremel out the bedding until you can fit 2 pieces of redi-rod in a V [narrow end of V is at the fore-end] in the barrel channel NOT touching the barrel. Now epoxy that in. Voila, no more stock flex.

Finally, what is the round count in the barrel? Even if it is relatively low, was it shot too fast [HEAT!] at some point to shoot the throat out?

I presume the crown is good?

Is the threaded muzzle protector tight? Have you tried removing it to see if that makes a difference?

How clean / fouled is your barrel?

I presume the brass is all 1 brand, & perhaps 1 lot?

What neck tension [on your brass] are you running?

Have you cleaned your bolt? When you do, remove the spring & roll it on the bench. If it is "wonky" [scientific term for bent! ;-) ] that could be your problem.

Certainly no expert, but based on what I'm hearing I would assume that as the barrel heats up, either it or the stock are creeping

 

[99Solutions]

I’m sure you’ve done all the standard considerations (cleaning the carbon right after the chamber, torqued the rings, tried action torqued, etc) so I’ll get to the next step.
The fact that the accuracy comes and goes makes me think it may be simple barrel dynamics causes a complicated outcome. I’m no expert, but my first attempt would be to keep the load that shot accurate sometimes and change other variables rather than multiple at a time. I bet if the barrel pressure could be repeatable in the same spot it might enable consistency.

I’d try floating the barrel past chamber section, and try different action torque settings (a few). If that didn’t do the trick I’d install a pressure pad near the end of the stock, and gradually move it further toward the the receiver section gradually if necessary. One variable at a time before changing anything else. Just my 2 cents.

I’m sure one way or another you’ll get it shooting great. When you do, please post again and let us know what did the trick.

 

[Kazman1960]

I’m sure you’ve done all the standard considerations (cleaning the carbon right after the chamber, torqued the rings, tried action torqued, etc) so I’ll get to the next step.
The fact that the accuracy comes and goes makes me think it may be simple barrel dynamics causes a complicated outcome. I’m no expert, but my first attempt would be to keep the load that shot accurate sometimes and change other variables rather than multiple at a time. I bet if the barrel pressure could be repeatable in the same spot it might enable consistency.

I’d try floating the barrel past chamber section, and try different action torque settings (a few). If that didn’t do the trick I’d install a pressure pad near the end of the stock, and gradually move it further toward the the receiver section gradually if necessary. One variable at a time before changing anything else. Just my 2 cents.

I’m sure one way or another you’ll get it shooting great. When you do, please post again and let us know what did the trick.

Yeah im going to try the Tightening or loosening of the action screws as that seemed to have made the most difference so far .

 

[Kazman1960]

I cant post pics due to being a heic file. I'll do my best to break down todays events .
10.30am , approx -6 degrees .
Set up and ranged at 106 yards .
All groups were fired from the bed of my truck in prone postilion .

1st shot of the session was just a "sighter " to see where bullets where hitting .
Approx 2.5 inches high and just over 1/2 inch left . 12 clicks down and 4 right , away we go .

Group #1 . Shots #1 and 2 just to the right of bullseye, shot 3 , approx 1inch high and 3/4 inch right , shot 4 took out the bullseye, shot 5 approx 1/2 high and left of bull . Group measured 1.343" . Getting there lol .

Group 2 , approx 20 minutes after T1.
Shot #1 , huge shift in poi , approx 1/2 high and 1.5" to the right , shot 2 1/2" high and 1.25" from bull ,shot #3 , approx 1/4 left of bull and 1/4 above bull , shot #4 , approx 1.5 "right of bull , shot #5 approx 1.0" right of bull. Group size 1.344 "

Group #3 . Again approx 20 minutes after T2 was shot . Shot #1 , approx 1/8" inch under and left of bull . Shot #2 1/8" high but 1.0" right of bull . Shot#3 ,1/8" under and left of bull , shot #4 pretty much in hole # 1, shot #5 1/2" low and 1/4" right of bull. Group size 1.89 due to #2 shot .

Group #4 . On this one i tightened the stock screws approx 1/16th of a turn . Here goes . Shot #1 , approx 1 1/4 " right of bull , shot #2 , 1 1/4" right of bull but 1/4' under shot 1 , shot #3 , 1.0" above shot # 1 , shot #4 approx 1/2" under shot # 1 , shot #5 , approx 1.5" under shot #1 . This was not a group it shot a vertical line measuring 1.782 .

Group #5 . This was shot approx 10 minutes later . I adjusted the stock screws again .This time i tightened the fore end bolt 1/16 of a turn and loosened the rear bolt by 1/8th of a turn . Shot #1 . approx 1" right of bull , shot #2 1/2" right of bull , shot #3, approx 3/4"right of bull and 1/2" low , shot #4 , approx 1" right of bull and 1/2" low , shot #5 1/2" high and approx 1.5"right of bull .
Group size measured 1.150" .
Its getting there but the dramatic shifts in the poi are kind of frustrating .
I'm beginning to think it is the stock that's giving me the problem .
Other that adjusting the scope at the start of the session , the only adjustments made where to the bolts on the stock on groups 4 and 5 .
I'm still trying to figure out how to convert these pics to see if i can post them , if i get it figured out , i'll put them up later .

 

[todbartell]

parallax error in optic? One guy was telling me how his 6.5 PRC only groups at 300 yards+, turns out he had his scope set on infinity parallax

 

[Kazman1960]

I cant post pics due to being a heic file. I'll do my best to break down todays events .
10.30am , approx -6 degrees .
Set up and ranged at 106 yards .
All groups were fired from the bed of my truck in prone postilion .

1st shot of the session was just a "sighter " to see where bullets where hitting .
Approx 2.5 inches high and just over 1/2 inch left . 12 clicks down and 4 right , away we go .

Group #1 . Shots #1 and 2 just to the right of bullseye, shot 3 , approx 1inch high and 3/4 inch right , shot 4 took out the bullseye, shot 5 approx 1/2 high and left of bull . Group measured 1.343" . Getting there lol .

Group 2 , approx 20 minutes after T1.
Shot #1 , huge shift in poi , approx 1/2 high and 1.5" to the right , shot 2 1/2" high and 1.25" from bull ,shot #3 , approx 1/4 left of bull and 1/4 above bull , shot #4 , approx 1.5 "right of bull , shot #5 approx 1.0" right of bull. Group size 1.344 "

Group #3 . Again approx 20 minutes after T2 was shot . Shot #1 , approx 1/8" inch under and left of bull . Shot #2 1/8" high but 1.0" right of bull . Shot#3 ,1/8" under and left of bull , shot #4 pretty much in hole # 1, shot #5 1/2" low and 1/4" right of bull. Group size 1.89 due to #2 shot .

Group #4 . On this one i tightened the stock screws approx 1/16th of a turn . Here goes . Shot #1 , approx 1 1/4 " right of bull , shot #2 , 1 1/4" right of bull but 1/4' under shot 1 , shot #3 , 1.0" above shot # 1 , shot #4 approx 1/2" under shot # 1 , shot #5 , approx 1.5" under shot #1 . This was not a group it shot a vertical line measuring 1.782 .

Group #5 . This was shot approx 10 minutes later . I adjusted the stock screws again .This time i tightened the fore end bolt 1/16 of a turn and loosened the rear bolt by 1/8th of a turn . Shot #1 . approx 1" right of bull , shot #2 1/2" right of bull , shot #3, approx 3/4"right of bull and 1/2" low , shot #4 , approx 1" right of bull and 1/2" low , shot #5 1/2" high and approx 1.5"right of bull .
Group size measured 1.150" .
Its getting there but the dramatic shifts in the poi are kind of frustrating .
I'm beginning to think it is the stock that's giving me the problem .
Other that adjusting the scope at the start of the session , the only adjustments made where to the bolts on the stock on groups 4 and 5 .
I'm still trying to figure out how to convert these pics to see if i can post them , if i get it figured out , i'll put them up later .

There will be allot of questions and allot of answers, but among the questions that come to mind for me right away;

*the barrel is clean/not copper fouled etc?
*trigger pull weight?
*did you let the barrel cool down between shots?
*shooting only reloads or have you tried factory ammo?
*have you tried bullet weights lighter/heavier than what should work best for the rate of twist?
*proper rest fore/aft?

BTW, don't know you so I'm not making any assumptions about your experience level, but these^ are among the things that have stood in the way of accuracy for me having loaded 4 different centerfire calibers. I've only shot 6.5 once, but I've loaded .223, 204R, 243 and 17 Hornet. 204 was the only challenge, almost gave up on it. lol

Good luck, frustrating when one caliber goes so easy for you (.223 in my case) and boosts your confidence. Then the next one can bring you down a few notches. lol

No factory ammo , ive re loaded , 204 Ruger,223, 240 , 6.5 Creedmoor , 270 WSM , 7MM WSM, 300WSM 325 WSM , 300 winmag , 308, 7mm Rem Mag , 7MM Ultra Mag , 338 Lapua Mag and the Mighty 50 BMG .
Don't get me wrong ,i,m no expert i just reload to a certain point , once i find what the rifles liked that's great , i dont chase rabbits so to speak . The rifle has a Timney Trigger which i really like .
It seems to like the 140 to 147g but , as of now im out and the damn postal strike is crippling me from buying / finding more .

 

[Kazman1960]

parallax error in optic? One guy was telling me how his 6.5 PRC only groups at 300 yards+, turns out he had his scope set on infinity parallax

I still have the rifle on the bench at home . I usually set parallax to where i get the clearest picture through the scope for my eyes. I just checked and its set at approx 80 yards . Not sure if that will make that much of a different . If weather and time permits though , i will re adjust and try again . Thanks for that piece of info .

 

[cosmic]

Well - Sure sounds like a stock bedding issue. A well bedded action will allow the stock screws to "snug up" briskly, eg ~ 1/4 turn. A poorly bedded action will require a turn or more. Worst case is an action that is rocking due to a high point in the stock midway between the two screws.

 

[Lead hammer]

I think your reloads maybe are on a very very small node.
A difference in temp would throw them off the rails. Don’t forget to check for a carbon ring causing pressure spikes. Don’t forget to check firing pin and it’s channel for any oil or gunk. I have a Magpul stock on my 10/22, it’s ok but definitely not as solid as it should be.

 

[Canuck65]

I have a Remington 700 semi heavy barrel rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor sitting in a Magpul stock .
This rifle gave me major headaches trying to figure out what bullet and powder would work to an "acceptable " level for accuracy .
It was shooting sort of OK for a while now its back to useless again.
It started throwing flyers so i changed the scope , all to no avail .
I took the stock off just to see if something bad was going on ( not really sure what i was looking for) .
Didn't find anything out of the ordinary .
I Re assembled it all , went to my favorite shooting place , first group came back ok , after that , it went to hell again .
The rifle will not shoot a group , its more like a line and not even a close one . Last one before i gave up was around 3 inches at 105 yard range .
Does anyone have an idea what could be wrong before i jam the barrel in a vise? .
Could it be an issue with the Stock ? Is the Barrel shot out ?
I,ve wasted so much time and effort trying to get this pos to shoot but i'm all out of ideas and patience now .
Thanks in advance for any help , please feel free to ask questions but no bashing .

As others have said, take a look at the barrel/forend fit. you'll want to be able to slide a $5 bill or piece of heavy paper all the way back with no interference.

Next, I would look at the fit between the action and the stock, particularly around the recoil lug. I had a 700AWR that wouldn't group AT ALL. I found that the inletting was a bit off. I bedded it and there was an instant improvement. I also found that I had to push my loads a little past max level with a slightly slower powder (still no pressure sign or extraction issues) and it tightened up even more.

Good luck.

 

[Kazman1960]

As others have said, take a look at the barrel/forend fit. you'll want to be able to slide a $5 bill or piece of heavy paper all the way back with no interference.

Next, I would look at the fit between the action and the stock, particularly around the recoil lug. I had a 700AWR that wouldn't group AT ALL. I found that the inletting was a bit off. I bedded it and there was an instant improvement. I also found that I had to push my loads a little past max level with a slightly slower powder (still no pressure sign or extraction issues) and it tightened up even more.

Good luck.

Yeah i did do that . Doubled over piece of paper slides back to the lug with no issues . I also tried a "hotter load " a while back . The primers were cratering but it did shoot and group pretty good . Again , this was only shooting a 3 shot group as i was experimenting . I think what really screwed everything up was when i tightened up the action bolts . Now that im playing with them a little , the difference is mind blowing . Trouble is now to find the sweet spot that will shoot that 1/2 moa for 5 shots.

 

[wolf300H&H]

Pressure points on barrel ?
Possibly pull apart again and lay a thin piece of gasket / flat rubber to act as a cheap bedding near the base of the barrel by screw

And most importantly, how is the crown ? You can chamfur or deburr it yourself or get a proper GS to cut and crown

A bad crown will throw your bullets to the dogs

 

[70m4h4wk]

I put my money on inconsistent stock contact. Between temperature fluctuations and stock flex it wouldn't shock me to find out that's the problem.

 

[Kazman1960]

Pressure points on barrel ?
Possibly pull apart again and lay a thin piece of gasket / flat rubber to act as a cheap bedding near the base of the barrel by screw

And most importantly, how is the crown ? You can chamfur or deburr it yourself or get a proper GS to cut and crown

A bad crown will throw your bullets to the dogs

I think there is something there in regards to pressure points .
Where do you think i should try the " cheap bedding " ?
In front or behind the recoil lug ?
As for the crown , the rifle did print respectable groups , however , i think one day when i was making sure all bolts and screws were tight on my rifles , this rifle went off the deep end lol .
I just wish i could post the pics so the group can see what im talking about in regards to the group sizes .

 

[70m4h4wk]

I would do it in front of the recoil lug all the way to the tip of the stock fore end. Then you know you have consistent pressure