Hunter and his dog missing in Northern BC ----> UPDATE: Dog Proved Not to be Murphy!

canadian hunter312 said:
I think you’re underestimating the drive and determination of dogs. The saying “work like a dog” didn’t just happen one day, it was formed by years and years of dogs exhibiting great drive, often working themselves to death.

Even if the dog zig zagged, which it certainly would have, covering 100-200kms in 35 days is most definitely possible. Changing total distance to 200kms or 5.7kms daily only increases daily walking time to still only 1-2 hours. Again, very easy for a large breed dog.


Golden retrievers were specifically bred for swimming in water and are cold hardy. Most people with them have a hard time keeping them out of the water, even in the middle of winter. The rivers are irrelevant.


It seems impossible, until you look at the numbers. Then it seems very easy to travel that far in 35 days.
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I was a dedicated waterfowler for years. I am WELL aware of what river ice flows, -20*C ambient air temp, and long swim distances will do to dogs.
I also ran bears and cats with hounds for years, growing up in a hound household.
I currently have a heeler that spent his life working livestock until he went blind, that was lost for weeks at -35*C. That dog would travel 30+ km a day based on visual reports, but he stayed close to where he was lost.
The amount of ground a dog can travel in the course of a week can’t surprise me.

A dog trying on its own to cross a fast moving river that is hundreds of meters wide WOULD surprise me. A malnourished dog SURVIVING that swim is even more unlikely. I’d have an easier time believing that a golden eagle picked him up and flew him across the river, and gently put him down on the edge of the river valley.
 
FLHTCUI said:
More people trying to debunk the dogs resilience to survive than holding out hope for the guy who is missing.
What about that guy from Kamloops who spent 5 weeks in the bush and recently walked out of the bush ?
How about a parallel line with that stunned wonder what, two years back who was just outside of Port Renfrew BC spent again ..I forget how many weeks that was.
That one didnt show any signs of starvation or exposure to the elements.
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That Kamloops kid, who survived for 50 days on a jar of peanut butter at -30*C in 2’ of snow, who’s story keeps changing you mean?

Definitely unheard of for a 20 year old dude to ever try and get famous.
 
KodiakHntr said:
I live in the middle of where Jim’s truck was found and where the dog was picked up.

Yes, it is about 100km between those two places, and if Jim’s companion had been a raven that would be feasible travel. However, that is a house dog, and he would have to had crossed the rivers. He couldn’t have straight lined it from one spot to another.
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I'm of the mind the truck location is just a diversion tactic for something more nefarious
No sign at all was found near it and imo unless the guy was swept down a river and the dog followed, there should have been something nearby.
The route home for Murphy could be from somewhere entirely different
Another point about him going for a grouse hunt, there are lots of places way close to FSJ for a good hunt
Just some speticalating over coffee.......
 
FLHTCUI said:
More people trying to debunk the dogs resilience to survive than holding out hope for the guy who is missing.
What about that guy from Kamloops who spent 5 weeks in the bush and recently walked out of the bush ?
How about a parallel line with that stunned wonder what, two years back who was just outside of Port Renfrew BC spent again ..I forget how many weeks that was.
That one didnt show any signs of starvation or exposure to the elements.
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There is a little hinkiness to that story of the guy from Kamloops. People who were there when he came out said he had barely lost any weight if any at all. That seems hard to believe for someone supposedly lost for 5 weeks in the conditions that were on that mountain.
 
KodiakHntr said:
That Kamloops kid, who survived for 50 days on a jar of peanut butter at -30*C in 2’ of snow, who’s story keeps changing you mean?

Definitely unheard of for a 20 year old dude to ever try and get famous.
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Like I said just a post ago, I don't believe a word of it. It's nothing to create a shelter earlier, stock it full of MRE and claim to "survive" for 5 weeks.
 
boxhitch said:
I'm of the mind the truck location is just a diversion tactic for something more nefarious
No sign at all was found near it and imo unless the guy was swept down a river and the dog followed, there should have been something nearby.
The route home for Murphy could be from somewhere entirely different
Another point about him going for a grouse hunt, there are lots of places way close to FSJ for a good hunt
Just some speticalating over coffee.......
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Possible. But the fact that Saugstad saw him minutes before he disappeared, trying to coax the dog back to the truck - Jim’s spouse indicated that the dog was very gunshy, and that he was attempting to break him of that to turn him into a bird dog.

THAT part makes sense to me. Shoot a chicken on the side of the road, dog freaks out when you try and force him to retrieve it, chase dog into the bush wearing nothing but a hoodie. Hypothermia gets you hours later as you huddle under a root wad trying to survive.
Groundbirch is a pretty flat area, with subtle slopes in different directions. Be real easy to get lost on an overcast day. Given the shrub layer in the area, it would be real easy to miss a frozen dude on the ground unless you tripped over his body.
Hypothermia makes people do stupid stuff, so its possible he cut and ran like a pinball off in random directions.
Or the dude who has disappeared all the people from around Dawson lately happened to drive past and picked him up and moved him way in the opposite direction of where he lived and disappeared Jim too. Not overly likely that anyone will ever really know though.
 
KodiakHntr said:
Possible. But the fact that Saugstad saw him minutes before he disappeared, trying to coax the dog back to the truck - Jim’s spouse indicated that the dog was very gunshy, and that he was attempting to break him of that to turn him into a bird dog.

THAT part makes sense to me. Shoot a chicken on the side of the road, dog freaks out when you try and force him to retrieve it, chase dog into the bush wearing nothing but a hoodie. Hypothermia gets you hours later as you huddle under a root wad trying to survive.
Groundbirch is a pretty flat area, with subtle slopes in different directions. Be real easy to get lost on an overcast day. Given the shrub layer in the area, it would be real easy to miss a frozen dude on the ground unless you tripped over his body.
Hypothermia makes people do stupid stuff, so its possible he cut and ran like a pinball off in random directions.
Or the dude who has disappeared all the people from around Dawson lately happened to drive past and picked him up and moved him way in the opposite direction of where he lived and disappeared Jim too. Not overly likely that anyone will ever really know though.“Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead”
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“Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead”
Benjamin Franklin 1706-1790
I bet the dog knows more than he is letting on..."I'll show him for shooting those poor lil grouse birds knowing I am afraid of gun fire" ;)

People go missing all the time, sometimes by accident, nefarious reasons or just pure carelessness (accidentally).
Anyways, I hope there is nothing nefarious in this case and still holding out faint hope he is found alive and if not found but for peace for his family that he is home .
Rob
 
Had a couple walks to the truck in the dark, and once or twice I figured I might have to spend the night.

I now carry a few basics on me all the time now. Good flashlight, extra battery, and a couple reliable ways to make fire, and a good knife or two.

Some forces refer to a base load out or something along those lines.
 
That's not a Rez Dog and there's no reason at all that a Dog can't travel ~100km. The Peace isn't really an obstacle to a Dog bred to retrieve Ducks.
 
tactical lever said:
Had a couple walks to the truck in the dark, and once or twice I figured I might have to spend the night.

I now carry a few basics on me all the time now. Good flashlight, extra battery, and a couple reliable ways to make fire, and a good knife or two.

Some forces refer to a base load out or something along those lines.
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As a field geologist who was trained in the pace and compass pre GPS era, I've always been confident of my orienteering skills in bush, tundra, desert, jungle, alpine, steppe, taiga, anywhere.

Once as a 5 year geologist, I left the minesite in NW Ont and went grouse hunting. I turned off the NS main logging road and went on an EW small logging road. I flushed a grouse and chased it N and then E. Eventually I decided to go back to the EW road by heading S. I was using my underground Brunton Pocket Transit to run the bearing.

I paced back the distance I'd gone N. No EW road. I paced S again, no EW road.

The sun was setting and even I felt a surge of panic so I did as I was trained. I sat down, smoked a cigarrete and thought it out.

I then deadheaded W as I knew the main NS logging road was there within 1.5 miles.

Brute force yes, but surefire.

I hit the NS road and back tracked to my truck in the dark. The next day I went back to figure it out. The EW road that I went N from after the grouse, ended less than 100 yards further east. That's why I didn't intersect it when I paced S.

So even experienced bush peoplekind can get turned around but being prepared and using your brain is the answer.
 
geologist said:
As a field geologist who was trained in the pace and compass pre GPS era, I've always been confident of my orienteering skills in bush, tundra, desert, jungle, alpine, steppe, taiga, anywhere.

Once as a 5 year geologist, I left the minesite in NW Ont and went grouse hunting. I turned off the NS main logging road and went on an EW small logging road. I flushed a grouse and chased it N and then E. Eventually I decided to go back to the EW road by heading S. I was using my underground Brunton Pocket Transit to run the bearing.

I paced back the distance I'd gone N. No EW road. I paced S again, no EW road.

The sun was setting and even I felt a surge of panic so I did as I was trained. I sat down, smoked a cigarrete and thought it out.

I then deadheaded W as I knew the main NS logging road was there within 1.5 miles.

Brute force yes, but surefire.

I hit the NS road and back tracked to my truck in the dark. The next day I went back to figure it out. The EW road that I went N from after the grouse, ended less than 100 yards further east. That's why I didn't intersect it when I paced S.

So even experienced bush peoplekind can get turned around but being prepared and using your brain is the answer.
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Few years ago, and walked into some thick bush after a grouse just as it was getting dark, and shot it a little further in.

Breaking branches as I went in to kind of mark my path. I looked for the grouse and it got dark. I had a light and looked around after I circled some trees, and suddenly I wasn't sure which way was "back".

Had a rough idea, and I wasn't far from the road at all, but I got worried. Started heading in the direction I figured and and then remembered that I had a remote lock on the vehicle. Sure enough I could hear the horn ahead of me.

Worse come to worse I could have made a fire and camped out, or used a fire or two as a beacon I could find my way back to if I was wrong in my direction choice.

Was pretty nervous for a second though. Started trying to carry a compass on myself all the time after that.
 
tactical lever said:
Few years ago, and walked into some thick bush after a grouse just as it was getting dark, and shot it a little further in.

Breaking branches as I went in to kind of mark my path. I looked for the grouse and it got dark. I had a light and looked around after I circled some trees, and suddenly I wasn't sure which way was "back".

Had a rough idea, and I wasn't far from the road at all, but I got worried. Started heading in the direction I figured and and then remembered that I had a remote lock on the vehicle. Sure enough I could hear the horn ahead of me.

Worse come to worse I could have made a fire and camped out, or used a fire or two as a beacon I could find my way back to if I was wrong in my direction choice.

Was pretty nervous for a second though. Started trying to carry a compass on myself all the time after that.
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I always carry a compass in the bush and in the boat, even with GPS it is a smart thing to have and know how to use.

Part of my collection, I have others......

KiCBJgh.jpg
 
canadian hunter312 said:
These threads are always great as the different angles people come from really make you wonder what really happened.

Simply lost and the dog made it out
Murder
Victim willingly disappearing
Suicide
Wild animal attack


I’ll say one thing about the dog though. 5 weeks of unknown territory and malnourishment can drastically alter the appearance and behaviour. Years back we recovered a friend’s dog that was stolen for dog fighting about 4 weeks after he was taken.

He did not recognize any of us and wanted to kill us, his normally straight fur was sort of wavy, his “tail that never stops” was no longer wagging, and the cuddly teddy bear mentality had turned into an antisocial lunatic.

Took a few months to get him back to normal and euthanasia was considered a few times.


I would have bet everything I owned that it was not my buddies dog. But it would have been impossible for anyone to fake the missing dewclaw and scar on his face.


I can’t see a dog leaving its owner. Not a good sign if it his his dog.
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ya I have rescued a few dogs over the years from really bad situations. It is always amazing how much they change physically and mentally once they are in a safe and nourishing environment. The physical changes can be significant.
 
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