.243 - Just Enough, Not Enough or Perfect

Just my 2 cents worth but recoil is accumulative and the reason so many trap shooters that have shot 100's of thousands of rounds have switched to release triggers their brain will not let them pull the trigger anymore, it's more than a flitch they literally can't pull the trigger..
 
Licensed to kill said:
That’s true. If I didn’t screw this up, The math works like this, the fastest that a human can react to something is 100 milliseconds (.001). A bullet travelling at 2000 fps leaves a 28” barrel in 80 milliseconds (.0008) .0002 seconds BEFORE the shooter can react to the recoil. If it was the physical recoil that prompts a flinch, it would have no affect on accuracy since the bullet is clear of the barrel before the flinch. Therefore, for a flinch to affect accuracy it would have to happen BEFORE the shooter actually feels he recoil, hence the flinch is a mental affliction caused by the anticipation of the recoil. Like you said “ math and physics don’t care”. Of course a shorter barrel or faster bullet is clear of the barrel with more time to spare before felt recoil
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Typed out a very long winded response.... the crap canned it.

The issue with the above is reaction time vs involuntary reflex time, They just aren't the same thing. The reaction time you have quoted is an input reaction time. Example: when the light turns green, press the button. That is a function of time, and the mean average for a human is 250 to 270ms, or .25 of a second.
Involuntary reflex time is measured in speed, average being 520 Km per hour.

So without getting into it, they just aren't the same.

Yes, a large part of the flinch is mental, in anticipation to the "hit". This is the mental part folks keep throwing out there, It can be trained for, as discussed.
The other large parts are that every single sense a person has are assaulted by the recoil, and that body and brain processes those at different times, speeds. and ways.

R.
 
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Licensed to kill said:
That’s true. If I didn’t screw this up, The math works like this, the fastest that a human can react to something is 100 milliseconds (.001). A bullet travelling at 2000 fps leaves a 28” barrel in 80 milliseconds (.0008) .0002 seconds BEFORE the shooter can react to the recoil. If it was the physical recoil that prompts a flinch, it would have no affect on accuracy since the bullet is clear of the barrel before the flinch. Therefore, for a flinch to affect accuracy it would have to happen BEFORE the shooter actually feels he recoil, hence the flinch is a mental affliction caused by the anticipation of the recoil. Like you said “ math and physics don’t care”. Of course a shorter barrel or faster bullet is clear of the barrel with more time to spare before felt recoil
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Way to throw something completely irrelevant in there, nobody said a flinch starts while a bullet is moving down the barrel
 
canadaman30 said:
If your flinching before the firing pin hits the primer you need to admit to your fear of pulling the trigger.
It's just that simple...accuracy has nothing to do with size of headstamp
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It isn't that simple, at all. If it were, then most everyone would be capable of shooting very tiny groups with very obnoxious recoiling rifles. They very much aren't.
Accuracy always has something to do with the head stamp.

R.
 
MTM said:
Recoil control is mental period. We know what’s coming, if you can’t deal with it you can’t shoot that gun. Pretty straightforward.
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It isn't... at all. There is some, of course,
The other is about as mental as holding your breath, or not not blinking. Or not moving your knee/lower leg when hit with the tiny hammer at the doctors office.

R.
 
Ok, this is how it goes. You put the crosshairs exactly where you want them. You squeeze the trigger perfectly, not moving the sight picture at all. After that it doesn’t matter. Get it?
 
Rman said:
The other large parts are that every single sense a person has are assaulted by the recoil, and that body and brain processes those at different times, speeds. and ways.

R.
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Of course every single sense a person has are assaulted by recoil. However, the fact still remains that the FASTEST that a human can react is longer that the time it takes for the bullet to clear the barrel even at only 2000fps and a 29” barrel. If it is impossible for a human to detect and respond to the recoil prior to the bullet leaving the barrel, how does the physical recoil affect accuracy?
 
Licensed to kill said:
Well, the subject is about how recoil from big calibres causes a flinch adversely affecting accuracy. Please explain how a flinch AFTER the bullet leaves the barrel can adversely affect accuracy.
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Mostly because, for most, the flinch starts as the trigger is being pressed.
MTM said:
Ok, this is how it goes. You put the crosshairs exactly where you want them. You squeeze the trigger perfectly, not moving the sight picture at all. After that it doesn’t matter. Get it?
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Except the sight picture always moves. Always. For some, it moves for less than others. That is what makes some shooters better than others. Get it?


The sooner you guys wrap your heads around this, the better shooters you will become. Also, this stuff wasn't invented by me. It's math, physics, physiology and phycology. Do some research on your own, and get there, or don't. It doesn't really matter.
Lots of ways to get things done. If you're getting it done, your way, then that's great.

R.
 
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Rman said:
Mostly because, for most, the flinch starts as the trigger is being pressed.
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But you have been stating all along that flinch is caused by the physical force of the recoil. There IS no recoil yet “as the trigger is being pressed”. THAT is a mental thing in anticipation of the coming kick. You just made everyone’s point that were countering yours.
 
Licensed to kill said:
But you have been stating all along that flinch is caused by the physical force of the recoil. There IS no recoil yet “as the trigger is being pressed”. THAT is a mental thing in anticipation of the coming kick. You just made everyone’s point that were countering yours.
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You need to read, and comprehend. There are multiple facets to recoil, and flinching. Mental and physical. All have been explained in detail.
The feller that can hold his breath until he's dead, will never flinch, for everyone else there is a flinch and a bracer.

R.
 
Licensed to kill said:
But you have been stating all along that flinch is caused by the physical force of the recoil. There IS no recoil yet “as the trigger is being pressed”. THAT is a mental thing in anticipation of the coming kick. You just made everyone’s point that were countering yours.
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Nobody said flinch is caused by the physical force of the recoil. Nobody also said anything about flinching after the bullet leaves the barrel. Are you trolling, throwing this stuff out there?
 
MTM said:
Ok I’m done. The .243 is perfect for the OPs intended purpose and nobody can shoot big guns accurately.
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What he's getting at is that the flinch is occuring WHILE the trigger is pulled, is all. Not after, as the bullet races down the barrel.

I see the logic in what you're saying, its just that it only applies if the flinch happens while the recoil happens. It doesn't. There's a reason its called "anticipating recoil"

You don't flinch after someone punches you, you flinch when you see it coming haha. Know that whole "let the shot surprise you, just squeeze the trigger til the gun goes off" stuff? Its so you don't yank, mash or otherwise grab on the trigger in anticipation....
 
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