Loading for a 357 Carbine

[super7]

What peep did you use? I ended up making one similar to what Steve’s guns sells that you replace the safety with. It’s not great but it was cheap and it works ok.
I’ve loaded up a bunch of 38 spl and 357 with w231 recently. I know w231 is not ideal for 357 but it was all I could get at the time. Have yet to shoot any of it in my rifle though.

 

[old303]

3.0 makes for a nice cowboy load. 30 needs a .500 NE to hold it?

2.0 grains TB makes an amazingly quiet wadcutter load, although that's exploring the lower edge.

(I should note that was for a revolver, not a long arm.)

 

[B]

2.0 grains TB makes an amazingly quiet wadcutter load, although that's exploring the lower edge.

I have gone as low as 2.8grns of bullseye with HB wadcutters but never used them in a rifle as I feared they wouldn't exit the barrel.

 

[mephisto002]

Using some simple logic I would assume he meant 3.0.

That's guessing, and assuming and guessing is not recommended when reloading ammo.

 

[B]

That's guessing, and assuming and guessing is not recommended when reloading ammo.

Sure whatever. You don't get it fair enough but don't be absurd and act like anyone was gonna run out and hurt themselves. I am guessing you don't load much and definitely don't have experience with that particular very popular powder. Stupid comment made with zero thought, good job.

 

[mephisto002]

Sure whatever. You don't get it fair enough but don't be absurd and act like anyone was gonna run out and hurt themselves. I am guessing you don't load much and definitely don't have experience with that particular very popular powder. Stupid comment made with zero thought, good job.

I am reloading since more than 45 years, and still don’t assume and guess when doing so.

Such an oustanding reloading expert like you must know, more than anybody else, that when you publish reloading data, it MUST be accurate.
Good luck with your guessing game.

It should not be too difficult to see who makes stupid comments.

 

[jethunter]

That's guessing, and assuming and guessing is not recommended when reloading ammo.

Assuming 30 gr is wrong seems right to me.

 

[old303]

Calm down, gentlemen! I believe we need both the databooks with tested recipes and some understanding of how powder charges work in various calibres trying to push bullets out of long or short barrels, that being gained from some appreciation of the science involved or simply from having loaded similar rounds and recalling what range of numbers should be expected. Please nobody err on either the side of just loading something that looks right without checking written data, or of blindly following anything a databook says even if the number is at odds with the ones around it.

 

[mephisto002]

Assuming 30 gr is wrong seems right to me.

It is getting silly.
He did not assume that 30 grs is wrong, he assumed that the poster meant 3 grs, and that is guessing.
Read the posts.

 

[jethunter]

It is getting silly.
He did not assume that 30 grs is wrong, he assumed that the poster meant 3 grs, and that is guessing.
Read the posts.

If he decided 3 gr is right, then he must think 30 gr was wrong. No?

 

[Ganderite]

What peep did you use? I ended up making one similar to what Steve’s guns sells that you replace the safety with. It’s not great but it was cheap and it works ok.
I’ve loaded up a bunch of 38 spl and 357 with w231 recently. I know w231 is not ideal for 357 but it was all I could get at the time. Have yet to shoot any of it in my rifle though.

I used this peep. It was cheap and seemed to be in the right place for a peep. So far it seems to be working well.

I looks a bit vulnerable. I wish it had some protective ears.

 

[legi0n]

In my (now sold) Marlin 1894C 18.5" (JM stamp) the most accurate load was 15gr A2400 with a Fed small pistol primer and the Lee cast 358-158RF at 1816fps. Fed magnum primers produced less velocity.
In my Ruger 77-357 18.5" the same load is ok but only yields 1800fps. Factory American Eagle 158gr SP works best.

 

[B]

It is getting silly.
He did not assume that 30 grs is wrong, he assumed that the poster meant 3 grs, and that is guessing.
Read the posts.

I don't want to derail this but 30 grains is nowhere even approaching possible. Almost any experience at all with the powder would tell you that that simple logic I mentioned would lead to a safe and proper load that is almost certainly what that guy meant to type out. I didn't presume to speak for him but your inability understand means nothing. You wanted to Safety Sally and I wasn't having it. I apologize to the OP...

 

[DanRR]

OUUUUUUPS !

Sorry....I was not even under booze effects.
3.0 grains for the Rossi, 2.0 grains for the Vaqueros.

 

[Garand]

My wife's CAS load for her Uberti M73 in .38 spl is 3.9 grains of Unique pushing a 158 grain LRNFP. While it has a higher PF than required it allows he to take down reactive targets easily, that are set a little "high". I have enough Unique for her guns to last her until the end of 2025 or so. Will switch her to TiteGroup when Unique runs out.

 

[jamesharrison]

While a bit different than your M92 clone, in both of my Ruger #1's in .357 [factory 22" & custom 26.5"], I use Starline brass for both .38 Spl. +P & .357.
I have to use .38 Spl+P brass for my 200 grain bullet, as the OAL is too long for the throat in both rifles, if I seat to the crimping cannelure. For any of the other bullets, I use .357 magnum brass.
In accuracy testing, I have found that S&B SP primers were the worst performing. Next was Ginex SP. I found virtually no difference between CCI SPM & Remington 6 1/2 primers.
For 158-180 gr. jacketed bullets, most bullets preferred H110, but a couple of the loads preferred old W296 [different lots as different colour & different velocities], only a couple preferred Lil Gun.
I found the heavier bullets performed better; I surmise because of less bullet jump.
For all of my cast bullet loads, I use Nobel Magnum 6. It runs quite close to 3N38 / RS24 / S221.
Loads using 2400 were good, but I only had a 1/4 pound to try.

 

[Ganderite]

I went to the range today and shot 10-shot groups using the Rem 6 1/2 rifle primers and CamPro 158 RNFP. Groups were not as tall. 14-2400 was best. Will try 14 and 15 of 2400 next time.

The weak link here is my eyes. I am not getting a good sight picture on the front sight. I will try my pistol glasses next time, for a closer focus.

With my Marlin carbines, I do the load development with a scope on the rifle.

 

[ZREXER]

I have a ton of 38 Special brass and use what is starting load for 357 Mag of 11.5 grains of 2400 with the 158 grain Campro bullets and CCI 550 small pistol Mag primers in my Henry BB with a 20" barrel. Five shoot groups are ragged hole at 25 yards and about 2 1/2 to 3 inches at 50 with the standard buckhorn sights.
No pressure signs on the brass at all. I know you're not supposed to use 357 loads in 38 Special cases, but with 357 starting loads, never had an issue in 500 or so rounds.
Boxes of loaded ammo are marked in two places that they aren't to be used in a 38 Special revolver which I don't have...more worried after I go.
I shoot them out of a 357 Mag Model 28 Smith revolver and they shoot really well and zero issues with brass, primers look great, no excess pressure signs at all.

 

[old303]

I went to the range today and shot 10-shot groups using the Rem 6 1/2 rifle primers and CamPro 158 RNFP. Groups were not as tall. 14-2400 was best. Will try 14 and 15 of 2400 next time.

The weak link here is my eyes. I am not getting a good sight picture on the front sight. I will try my pistol glasses next time, for a closer focus.

With my Marlin carbines, I do the load development with a scope on the rifle.

I was out with my Rossi lever gun today too. I'm finding that my reading/workshop safety glasses are the right ones for shooting too, especially with any sort of iron sights. Being able to see both sights clearly and the fuzzy bullseye beyond is working better than the other combinations I've tried. But getting a reticle and target both dialed into focus is even better!

 

[bearhunter]

Others may disagree with this, but I believe another issue Ganderite is having with his groups is the Campro bullets.

What kind of accuracy would you get out of a 357 mag handgun with those bullets at 50+ yards? Don't expect better out of your lever action rifle.

I ran into the same issue and a local Cowboy Shooter tuned me in on his findings. He shoots his lever action rifles a lot with moderate pressure loads, behind mostly cast lead bullets.

I had picked up a couple of thousand CamPro 158 grain FCP at the Chilliwack gunshow last spring and even though I was satisfied with them in my revolvers, I could not get them to shoot well at 50+yds.

I tried different powders, primers and cases. Played with seating depths, etc. They shot into 2-4 inches consistently.

I didn't get "stringing" issues, just clusters. I shot off my normal bench rests.

At 25 yds the loads shot 1-1.5 inches very consistently.

It was perplexing as the bullet weights were very consistent and the finish was excellent.

I gave up on them in my rifle, a Chiappa, model 92, with a 20 inch bbl and factory sights, which thankfully didn't need to be adjusted, right out of the box.

The Cowboy Shooter told me he had the same issue with all three of his rifles, which were made by three different manufacturers. Two Italian and one Winchester.

That's fairly conclusive, IMHO.

He showed me his targets, and loads, which were similar to mine.

He had purchased a thousand CamPro FCP bullets to see if he could cut down on his casting/prep time. I don't know if they are allowed for Cowboy Action Shooting, but his idea was to use them for practice and his cast bullets for competition.

Anyway, he decided to try "other" manufacturer's jacketed bullets and found they shot tighter groups out past 50 yards.

He knows his stuff, when it comes to lever action rifles in 38spl/357 and several other calibers, so I decided to try some different brands of bullets of similar design.

I used some 125grn Lawman(Speer) bullets I have on hand and the groups tightened up substantially. So then I went to some 158 grain, half jacket hollow points from Speer and they shot into an inch at 50 yds and also worked well in the "insert" barrel of my 12ga. SXS.

One other thing he suggested was to use "rifle" loads from the manuals, rather than pistol or Cowboy Action Loadings.

He knew what he was talking about.

I was to the point of selling the Chiappa if I couldn't get it to shoot acceptably. I'll be keeping it now.

I also tried some 180 grain Hornady XTP bullets over 12.5 grains of 2400/CCI 450 primers. These gave 1500+fps in my rifle and shot the best of all the jacketed bullets, sub 1 inch.

I have a mold which throws .361 diameter bullets, weighing 175 grains. I powdercoat them and they measure .363 in. My rifle shoots these very well, with 2400. Need more work though. I only had 20 left when I loaded them up.

I would like to say the longer, heavier bullets shoot best, but the 125 Speer Lawman bullets are almost as good.