Thoughts on Canadian availability of military surplus rifles?

wasa

wasa

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Over the years I've collected a bunch of WWII and earlier surplus rifles. Bought a bunch, sold a couple. But while chatting with a buddy at gun club last night we realized that certain countries firearms are WAY more common than others. For example:

Russian/USSR: Mosin, SVT-40, M44
Italy: lots of different Carcanos
Spain: Mauser (but maybe not lots of them)
UK: Snider Enfield, Pattern 14, lots of different Lee Enfields, even Martini Henry
Austria-Hungary : M95 rifle & carbine
Germany: lots of different Mausers
Turkey: different Mausers
Sweden: ag42b, Mausers
Czechoslovakia : vz24, vz52, vz52/57
Switzerland: K31, K11
USA: M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, M1903
China: SKS, Type 81
(and I'm sure there are more I'm missing)

But, I have noticed that there appears to be a total lack of French firearms. Lebel, MAS-36, MAS-49. I've been looking at buying some and they appear to be in short supply and command a premium. Plus, ammo for French firearms appears lacking. Over the years I've seen surplus 7.62x39, 7.62x51, 7.62x54R, heck even surplus 7.62x45 and 8x56 shows up once and a while. I remember buying a case of Greek surplus 303 British on stripper clips!

Similar, not many rifles from Greece (Mannlicher-Shonauer), Chile, Brazil or other South American countries (yes, I have seen some Mausers).

Maybe I have a selective memory, but did something happen in history such that certain countries firearms may be common in Canada (Italy, USSR, China, UK) but others (France, Greece) are not?

Thoughts? Or maybe I'm just blind and should keep looking for French firearms on the EE.
 
I bought a great condition MAS36 last year and it is a fun and handy rifle. Maybe it's like when you buy a new car then start noticing them everywhere, but I see them semi-regularly in the EE. That said, they definitely don't approach Mauser or Lee Enfield numbers. I still haven't fired a single round of factory ammunition, it's not very common. I also have only 20-ish pieces of 7.5 French brass, so I've been resizing 6.5x55 into 7.5x54 and they work great

As far as why there aren't as many around, I've heard that France provided their old rifles to other regions as lend/lease or armament programs. Couple that with the fact that France was invaded/occupied very early in WWII, they didn't spend the next 5 years churning out millions of rifles like some of the other belligerents
 
Really it all comes down to the dealers at the time they were surplused and which company bought them therefore where they ended up. Some dealers were Canadian only and some were American only. French rifles seem to be a bit more common in the states in terms of Berthiers and Lebels. I did hear that they first started to sell them in the states in the 1930s, which is why Remington started to make 8mm Lebel ammo at that time. Batches of them come in at other times as well. I have seem some Lebels at times on P&S, they have some Berthiers on now and some South American Mausers. You may consider importing one from down there through irunguns or Prophet River. The Mas 36s are around, I believe they came in around the 80s-90s. I've owned a couple of the Mas 36/51 which seem to be more common in my end of the country. Both of which I bought at gun shows and one came with a bunch of older ammo (200 rounds) which would have been contemporary to when they were brought in. I have never seen a Mas 49 in Canada but I have seen some Mas 49/56, they were expensive and some had the scopes. They come out of the wood work when they threatened to ban them. Ammo for both I think currently is only PPU and I haven't seem much around in a while, seemed to have dried up with the 7.65 Argentine/Belgian. I'm sure PPU will make more at some point. 8mm Lebel surplus I understand is rare and in poor condition, lots of hangfires and duds. The Greek Mannlichers are around too, I have owned a couple, they are just sporterized or just in absolutely horrendous condition.
 
Greece had a civil war which possibly consumed many guns

Some south american countries are highly humid which when combined with poor maintenance just leads to scrap. Other parts of SA had civil wars lasting decades, guns got used up.

Some countries just had worn out guns that no one wanted when others had good stuff to sell so they got scrapped.

Some countries are just poor and didn't have much to begin with.

Some countries ensured to destroy their surplus. The UK for example deliberately threw sniper rifles into the sea (or at least destroyed them)
 
CFET said:
Greece had a civil war which possibly consumed many guns

Some south american countries are highly humid which when combined with poor maintenance just leads to scrap. Other parts of SA had civil wars lasting decades, guns got used up.

Some countries just had worn out guns that no one wanted when others had good stuff to sell so they got scrapped.

Some countries are just poor and didn't have much to begin with.

Some countries ensured to destroy their surplus. The UK for example deliberately threw sniper rifles into the sea (or at least destroyed them)
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Very true. Combat, especially civil wars just consume military fire arms at a high rate, and many may have been scrapped or cannibalized for parts. Sometimes rifles were given already used in civil wars and border conflicts to other nations to fight in yet another civil war or border conflict. A great example of this is the Ethiopian cache that RTI brought into the states. Some of the worst condition stuff one will ever see. Some French Rifles are in there.

Another point is that some may have just been buried in some countries so they don't fall into the hands of rebels.
 
CFET said:
Greece had a civil war which possibly consumed many guns

Some south american countries are highly humid which when combined with poor maintenance just leads to scrap. Other parts of SA had civil wars lasting decades, guns got used up.

Some countries just had worn out guns that no one wanted when others had good stuff to sell so they got scrapped.

Some countries are just poor and didn't have much to begin with.

Some countries ensured to destroy their surplus. The UK for example deliberately threw sniper rifles into the sea (or at least destroyed them)
Click to expand...
Greece had two Balkan wars, WWI, the Greco-Turkish War, WWII, and the Civil War to consume their Mannlichers. Then to add to it when they were surplused because of how fine a hunting rifle the Mannlicher-Schroeder’s are the ones in best condition were sporterized.

There are some in country, I have a few, but they most certainly aren’t common.

Keep in mind there is also a lot of firearms in country which just aren’t for sale. For example I haven’t seen any Yugoslavian M24/47 or M48s for sale for a while and I know there is a bunch kicking around. I bought a few from dealers a decade ago.

There is also a decent amount of French firearms around (I have seen about 3 Berthier carbines for sale in the last week) but it also comes down to people being willing to sell. At the moment they have become much more popular due to people realizing the quality of them and books such as ‘Chassepot to Famas’.

People aren’t selling as much as they used to, when I started people would buy/sell/trade easily as you knew you could generally replace it if you wanted to. Now everyone holds on to what they have and only sell at higher prices. It’s weird as the prices have gone up, the willingness to sell has gone down.
 
canuck said:
they are kinda fugly when you first see them
But, they grow on you
:)




View attachment 890321
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^^^^^

What I find most interesting about the MAS44, 49 and 49/56 is their dog $hit simplicity! The only moving parts are the trigger, spring, sear, hammer, spring, firing pin and bolt (with the extractor and ejector). Utterly perfect! I also can't believe the gas tube vents into a recess on the bolt carrier. Eugene Stoner made simple unnecessarily complicated.
 
DiMP said:
I bought a great condition MAS36 last year and it is a fun and handy rifle. Maybe it's like when you buy a new car then start noticing them everywhere, but I see them semi-regularly in the EE. That said, they definitely don't approach Mauser or Lee Enfield numbers. I still haven't fired a single round of factory ammunition, it's not very common. I also have only 20-ish pieces of 7.5 French brass, so I've been resizing 6.5x55 into 7.5x54 and they work great

...
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The French rifles are a lot more progressive than first impressions. Their war effort in WW1 was exhausting, and one thing they decided was to make the soldier's job simple. The armourers were highly skilled tradesmen, and it was their job to do everything except clean and fire the rifles. The sights were not user adjustable. The armourer fired at a target, and then reached into his big box of spare parts to choose a new backsight which had the aperture offset in increments. The soldier was issued a zero'd rifle.

This quirk for collectors is these spare parts are now utterly unavailable, and I wasted a couple boxes of 7.5 trying to zero my MAS 36.
 
I had a Lebel 4 years ago, and sold it for $750 ( double what I paid for it). Wish I had held on to it, as they seem to have increased in value even more….
 
Most of the earlier imports came from the former french colonies in the middle east. Last batch in France of Mas 36, 49 and 49/56 riles went to the USA. After that those left in French arsenals were sent to the smelter.
 
MrBalkan said:
the amount of garands that became available in the last 5/7 years is incredible.
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'hate to disappoint, but the $99 Garands from Denmark in the 90s were the heyday. The issue with Garands is all the parts are hard to find. Whatever is good, stays on the rifle. What is for sale is often something that was sorted out of the keep-for-the-next-build drawer.
 
wasa said:
Over the years I've collected a bunch of WWII and earlier surplus rifles. Bought a bunch, sold a couple. But while chatting with a buddy at gun club last night we realized that certain countries firearms are WAY more common than others. For example:

....

Maybe I have a selective memory, but did something happen in history such that certain countries firearms may be common in Canada (Italy, USSR, China, UK) but others (France, Greece) are not?

Thoughts? Or maybe I'm just blind and should keep looking for French firearms on the EE.
Click to expand...
You are asking the wrong question. It has nothing to do with the country of origin, but the country of sale. Someone mentioned Civil Wars soaking up available supplies. The Spanish Civil War was fought with rifles scraped out of every armoury in Eastern, Central and Western Europe. Guns those countries didn't want or need, or which were nonstandard for their equipment plans. There are books and articles on line that detail all the detritus that slopped onshore in Spain (This is just one of many https://surplused.com/index.php/2020/06/15/foreign-rifles-of-the-spanish-republic-1936-1939/)

The Israelis captured metric tons of rifles from the Arabs over many different wars. The 8mm FN49s and Hakims, 7.5mm French MAS49s, the 7.62x39 Rashids all came out of the desert. The 7.62x51 M98s were their own original rifles that were converted to be easier to supply. Back when AKs were only Restricted, I saw a super early model AK47 with the original sheet metal butt socket attachment. The guy said it had been captured by the Israelis in Lebanon. The post WW2 clearances pushed Finnish Moisins and SVT40s onto the market, all the Mausers out of South America, and until recently the captured M98s, SVT40s and SKS that came from Russia and Ukraine. Switzerland didn't sell in-service rifles; that sold two generations-old reserve rifles that were obsolete.

Ammunition supply has always been a problem. French 7.5 was repackaged and sold by Century. I think it was Syrian. Until Privi could be imported in commercial quantities, there wasn't much around. It used to be Canadian and British .303 in boxes of 48 were really common. Not so much anymore.
 
Appreciate all of the comments. Guess I'm not fully in touch with the surplus arms sales. YouTube gives me various American info, like Century Arms or Tiger Imports, or other US importers of surplus. I've bookmarked some of the site sponsors like Marstar and GNG who have surplus all the time. I'm sure one day I'll grab a few French bolt rifles to go with my Canadian, British, Italian, Russian, German, A-H, etc ;-)
 
It's mainly about what there is coming in and in what quantity. The US soaks up most of the imports, just at SHOT show this year one company is getting guns from France. MAS rifles, various revolvers, even pristine No.4 Enfields

We have a decent selection and it jumps and bottoms with every import session/major collection dump

2012 Swiss K31s everywhere for $300 actively imported, ammo everywhere for cheap

2024 K31s go for $1,000 give or take and surplus ammo is only private sale
 
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