Squib X 2

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GMJim

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Hello all.
I've been reloading since 1977 and up to a year or so ago all I reloaded was .357 for a revolver. About 2 years ago I started reloading 9mm. I've been using Tite Group powder and Cam pro 124 grn. round nose projectiles. The Cam pro and Tite Group specs say starting load is 3.5 grns. and max 4.3 grns. I have a SP-01 Shadow and started with the 3.5 grn load with good results. After shooting more than 800 rounds out of a 1000 projectile bag with no issues I got a squib. The bullet was lodged in the barrel just before the rifleing. Only reason I caught this was the next round jammed the slide open, and the recoil was exactly as the previous rounds so I'm sure there was powder in the squib round. I am VERY anal about my loading and triple check every shell to make certain there is the correct amount of powder.

After removing the stuck bullet and checking the bore I went back to the range and after 9 more successful shots I got another squib. I'm trying to figure out why after more than 800 rounds with the same 3.5 grn. load that this would happen? I thought possibly there was a larger diameter bullet in the bag but I would have noticed this when seating it. I have a RCBS press and do one at a time so everything feels right when seating. I plan to increase the load to 3.9 grns and try again in a few days.
There is a remote possibility that I may have short loaded these two rounds because I check weigh every 10 rounds or when the powder measure doesn't feel right.
Any Ideas that I haven't thought of as to how this happened is appreciated
 
Momentarily lasps while reloading? It happens. Wife calls you, something catches your attention..

Because any amount of powder would get it past the chamber.

Because I know people that run W231 in Shadows and go down to 3.1 grns.
 
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Thanks for the reply. I would consider that but the recoil was no different than previous rounds, but still possible I guess. The bullet not leaving the barrel would certainly cause the recoil? I plan to load about 20 rounds at 3.5 grns. and weigh each one and see what happens.
 
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Thanks for the reply. Been using thousands upon thousands of CCI #500 primers. No problems up to this point but never say never I guess.
 
I stopped using titegroup in my nine due such a small charge not metering well. I had two squib loads. I was removing cases and checking powder when I noticed not enough powder in a couple. Mine went out the barrel but you could see them land a few feet in front of you. I was using a Lee powder measure on a turret press.
 
Titegroup excels when it comes to metering. You had very, very, very little powder or no powder at all. Another possiblilty is that the powder got contaminated/wet. Do you wet tumble the brass? A bullet will exit the barrel of a pistol with very little powder, so something isn't right.
 
Would a primer alone be enough to cycle the slide and pick up the next round?

... The bullet was lodged in the barrel just before the rifleing. Only reason I caught this was the next round jammed the slide open...
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The recoil felt the same because you probably can't feel the difference between 3.5gr and 3.0 gr but the difference was enough to get the bullet stuck.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I dry tumble my brass. Powder was dry and I always do a visual before seating the bullet. The gun kicked just as hard as the previous round and sounded the same. I'm at an indoor range with one gun at the farthes port from me with a .22 so no confusing sound. This is what has me baffled.

Gatehouse you posted as I was posting. 3 grns may not push the bullet out?
 
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GMJim said:
Thanks for the suggestions. Powder was dry and I always do a visual before seating the bullet. The gun kicked just as hard as the previous round and sounded the same. I'm at an indoor range with one gun at the farthes port from me with a .22 so no confusing sound. This is what has me baffled.

Gatehouse you posted as I was posting. 3 grns may not push the bullet out?
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You may be barely pushing the bullet out with 3.5 gr and dropping lower = stuck. .5gr is probably not visually different.
 
GMJim said:
Thanks for the suggestions. I dry tumble my brass. Powder was dry and I always do a visual before seating the bullet. The gun kicked just as hard as the previous round and sounded the same. I'm at an indoor range with one gun at the farthes port from me with a .22 so no confusing sound. This is what has me baffled.

Gatehouse you posted as I was posting. 3 grns may not push the bullet out?
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Since you dry tumble your brass any chance that a piece of media got stuck in the flash hole and reduced the primer ignition so that you didn't get complete powder detonation?
 
ted_dent said:
Since you dry tumble your brass any chance that a piece of media got stuck in the flash hole and reduced the primer ignition so that you didn't get complete powder detonation?
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I used to tumble my brass after depriming but for the reason you mentioned I tumble before depriming. I use a primer pocket cleaner before seating primers but it's possible I may have missed cleaning a couple enough.

Thanks everyone for the comments. Like I said, I'm very focused about reloading but I'm human and sh$t happens. I'm going to measure and check 20 rounds and go to the range. If they go down range OK I'll load a few more. 3.5 grns has worked well up to now so I don't think that's the issue. A fellow club member loads 3.9 grns and says he likes how it works. Also I complained the outside of my brass are very dirty and my hands have powder residue after shooting. I was told by some that I should increase my powder charge to stop this? Gonna try that and see if it works? I think I miss my Bullseye powder more every day.
 
Have you tested velocity? I found the campro data to be rather low. I’d suspect those are sub 950fps

Typically I’m at the 3.9 grain range. My shadow 2 and p320 both have shown to be high on the load range to make a 1000fps.

If you have a chronograph I’d run a few over that and make sure they aren’t dribbling out.
 
If there is soot all over your brass it's almost always too low pressure to properly expand the brass to seal the chamber. Sounds like 3.5 is very low pressure, not sealing the chamber, gas leaks backwards. Get a couple of lower charged rounds, very very low pressure, and bullet is stuck
 
No way 3.5gr (or 3.0gr) doesn't make it out the barrel. It takes very little powder to clear the barrel on a pistol. Low powder rounds might not work the action properly but they'll clear the barrel. Something else is wrong.

OP, are you visually checking that every case has powder in it before seating a bullet? Also, just out of curiosity, what is the OAL and case mouth measurement after crimp?

P.S. I do agree with several other members, ~4.0gr is the sweet spot for Titegroup under a 124gr plated/FMJ bullet.
 
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4n2t0 said:
No way 3.5gr (or 3.0gr) doesn't make it out the barrel. It takes very little powder to clear the barrel on a pistol.
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Take this to the bank.

I and a buddy of mine have used my powder drop to load upwards of 200K rounds of .38 sp with 3.1 gr of Tite G, shot thru both pistols & rifle barrels 20" in length....gaurandamnteed they will exit a barrel
 
Probably not related to the OPs problem but adding it here as a warning for others.

I was reloading 40cal on my Dillon one year. Had used the same press and Titegroup for years before. Zero problems. What happened was, I pulled the foam safety seal off a new jug of Titegroup... but didn't get all the white foam bits off the lip. Opening and closing the jug over time caused foam bits to fall into the jug and end up in my press. Causing minor blockages that created light loads now and again. I didn't notice until I did a metering check after 400 rounds. Basically I keep putting the same brass in the powder drop station five times, weigh the powder in it, divide by five and if I don't get my number I know something is off. This time it was all over the place. Had to tear my press down and clean it out, screen all my powder and pull 400 rounds because possible squibs :(
 
Gatehouse said:
If there is soot all over your brass it's almost always too low pressure to properly expand the brass to seal the chamber. Sounds like 3.5 is very low pressure, not sealing the chamber, gas leaks backwards. Get a couple of lower charged rounds, very very low pressure, and bullet is stuck
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Well here's my dilema. Been using 3.5 grns. for hundreds of rounds and getting good groups but saying 3.5 is too low doesn't explain why I've not had any issues but suddenly got two squibs. Sooty brass was noticed right away so increasing powder makes good sense. I guess the only logical reason for the squibs is a failure to put enough powder in those two shells? I'm going to load a few rounds and scale each one and see what happens. I've always checked the powder measure against the scale at least every 10 rounds or less but who knows?
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts!
Jim
 
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