DIY brass annealing setup?
- Thread starter bigHUN
- Start date
1/8" OD x 5/64" ID. You'll need about 3' per coil.
This what a friend found for me, "Digital PID Temperature Controller"
It is a bit stretch the max Temp is only 400C, I will keep looking for a bit higher range.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007581658617.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.2.6730671dGWRN1Y&algo_pvid=f7f4f6fb-4748-4b89-afb2-d69d2bb4b8e0&algo_exp_id=f7f4f6fb-4748-4b89-afb2-d69d2bb4b8e0-1&pdp_ext_f={"order":"178","eval":"1"}&pdp_npi=4@dis!CAD!20.12!19.40!!!14.07!13.57!@2101c5b217471567549977487e0707!12000041382096764!sea!CA!0!ABX&curPageLogUid=oEBjlH7O0SFN&utparam-url=scene:search|query_from:
Also, could not find the specs book yet, how far the probe min-max for reliable reading.
It is a bit stretch the max Temp is only 400C, I will keep looking for a bit higher range.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007581658617.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.2.6730671dGWRN1Y&algo_pvid=f7f4f6fb-4748-4b89-afb2-d69d2bb4b8e0&algo_exp_id=f7f4f6fb-4748-4b89-afb2-d69d2bb4b8e0-1&pdp_ext_f={"order":"178","eval":"1"}&pdp_npi=4@dis!CAD!20.12!19.40!!!14.07!13.57!@2101c5b217471567549977487e0707!12000041382096764!sea!CA!0!ABX&curPageLogUid=oEBjlH7O0SFN&utparam-url=scene:search|query_from:
Also, could not find the specs book yet, how far the probe min-max for reliable reading.
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how are you self annealer Builders and BBQ ers deciding how much time your brass needs cooking for and how do you tell the difference of brass hardness to be able to know how long to cook it for - Just wondering ? RJ
Jim,
Once you play a bit with one and write down the settings it is not too difficult. I dim the light a bit to get the initial set up going and then record the settings.
I'm sure you have watched the vids out by Cortina where he over anneals. I don't believe he saw any real different results. Now I'm not saying over anneal, but I don't think the odd one is going to hurt any.
Once you play a bit with one and write down the settings it is not too difficult. I dim the light a bit to get the initial set up going and then record the settings.
I'm sure you have watched the vids out by Cortina where he over anneals. I don't believe he saw any real different results. Now I'm not saying over anneal, but I don't think the odd one is going to hurt any.
that only tells you the temp you are at ! You still have NO ! Idea if your brass NEEDs 650 or 750 or 800 degress of temp to make it the correct hardness or how LONG to apply the temperature for except to have it melt at its temp rating !
OH the Science !
RJNot all brass is made up of the same mixture of metals and some are factory soft and some hard !
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From my engineering view I would prefer a "slower ramp up" with a Temp instead of a fast bake.
6-7-8 seconds vs 2-3 seconds.
Also seeing some people dropping a red hot brass in a bucket of water instead of cooling it down naturally.
These kind a contradict to my books, but oh well somebody figure that out ....
Tempilaq is one way - easier way - to measure the Temp, I am shopping now for a IR Temp probe.
We will see, can't wait for my parts to start playing.
6-7-8 seconds vs 2-3 seconds.
Also seeing some people dropping a red hot brass in a bucket of water instead of cooling it down naturally.
These kind a contradict to my books, but oh well somebody figure that out ....
Tempilaq is one way - easier way - to measure the Temp, I am shopping now for a IR Temp probe.
We will see, can't wait for my parts to start playing.
Bought the relay cord and induction heater all for 200 dollars. YouTube has a video on how to put together. I can anneal a ton of brass my self. The timer relay is good so you can keep it uniform. I’m no electrician but it’s so easy. Also comes with extra coils. Since buying I have not had to use the extra coils. Also it’s better if you remove the insulator on coil unless you make perfect coils. I also keep air fan blowing near to cool it down. I do about 80-100 cases in one sitting. Never had an over heat once. Good luck
They work the same as long as the ~8 seconds is at a "low" temperature peak (750F), as opposed to a flash at extreme temperatures (1150F) for the 1-3 seconds. The advantage to annealing the brass quickly at extreme temperatures is you'll have less gradient/risk of annealing the case head. As far as quenching it doesn't matter at all, brass work hardens, it won't harden from being quenched. I don't personally quench my brass, but I've also burned my fingers on the annealed brass so I understand why some people do it.
The induction annealer is unlike torch annealing on temperatures. The torches will gradually heat brass and hold temperature for a while out of the flame. The induction annealers can rapidly heat a piece of brass and it will cool rapidly when the coil is off, if you have the timer shutoff the moment it glows (~1150F) it will stop glowing the moment the coil is off. The brass glow will basically "blink".
This is Lapua 308 Winchester brass that I annealed on my unit, iirc it took about 3.2 seconds per piece.
that only tells you the temp you are at ! You still have NO ! Idea if your brass NEEDs 650 or 750 or 800 degress of temp to make it the correct hardness or how LONG to apply the temperature for except to have it melt at its temp rating !
OH the Science !
Not all brass is made up of the same mixture of metals and some are factory soft and some hard !
That is like saying the AMP annealer analyzes one pc of brass, but they all might be different, so you have to analyze every pc. Kinda redundant.
I think there is way too much "science" and not enough, does that really matter????
Really no different with any of the annealers out there. You set the time/temp for the brand of brass and adjust as you go. The gas pressure in a flame annealer will dissipate as you go and not give the same flame.
The amp annealer may have residual heat inside as you go and and not all the brass will have the same temp.
The list will go on and on. Just have to make the best of the situation you have. I think as a whole industry we all are over thinking the annealing process.
BattleRife
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Certainly all the discussion is of very dubious value, given the very poor technical understanding the shooting community has of annealing.
I offer my own insights as somebody with a degree in metallurgy, and who has had the opportunity to do lab tests on a few cases:
- The only proven benefit of annealing brass cartridge cases is to reduce incidences of cracking.
- Cracking in brass cases is usually the result of stress-corrosion cracking while in storage. SCC cracks are often very fine, and will not be visible to the naked eye until firing blows them open. This is why people think firing causes cracking, when in reality it is storage conditions.
- Annealing benefits by reducing the residual stresses in a case. No stress --> no stress-corrosion cracking. Annealing does not need to lower hardness or recrystallize the brass to achieve this benefit.
- Cases annealed 5 seconds at 450°C had cracking tendency lowered by about half. Annealing at 500°C eliminated cracking entirely. This is much hotter than the 750°F many people say is adequate, but is still below the "brass just starting to glow in a dark room" approach used by others.
Very interesting, do you have any thoughts on the higher temperatures also burning off residual ammonia compounds?Certainly all the discussion is of very dubious value, given the very poor technical understanding the shooting community has of annealing.
I offer my own insights as somebody with a degree in metallurgy, and who has had the opportunity to do lab tests on a few cases:
- The only proven benefit of annealing brass cartridge cases is to reduce incidences of cracking.
- Cracking in brass cases is usually the result of stress-corrosion cracking while in storage. SCC cracks are often very fine, and will not be visible to the naked eye until firing blows them open. This is why people think firing causes cracking, when in reality it is storage conditions.
- Annealing benefits by reducing the residual stresses in a case. No stress --> no stress-corrosion cracking. Annealing does not need to lower hardness or recrystallize the brass to achieve this benefit.
- Cases annealed 5 seconds at 450°C had cracking tendency lowered by about half. Annealing at 500°C eliminated cracking entirely. This is much hotter than the 750°F many people say is adequate, but is still below the "brass just starting to glow in a dark room" approach used by others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season_cracking
A friend was doing annealing for me with he's AMP. (He is out probably for the rest of the year on business in China)
I built a Press Force Meter for myself, just out of boredome.
I can measure the Press Force when neck sizing, also when pushing the mandrel also when seating the bullet.
I have found inconsistencies and sort my brass into batches based on the numbers my measuring devices generated. I cannot confirm if any effect on POI but I could see inconsistencies in Nm. And these brass were coming from a AMP annealer.
It was a long time I finished my schools in mechanical sciences
but still remember things through a foggy.I am supporting your facts about Temp, also how fast to apply the Temp.
My aliexpress parts are in the mail, and these days I am searching for a Infrared Probe = non contact Temp measuring device. Kind a don't like the idea paying a higher price, but I see no other way around if I want to make my project right.
BR makes some very good points. To add, brass is annealed several times during the manufacturing process. Probably the most critical step is the formation of the neck and shoulder, as it involves the most metal forming. The amount of residual stress and work hardening is dependent upon the conditioning of the brass during this process. A few years ago, I picked up some new blue bag Winchester brass. Upon first firing a good percentage developed splits at the neck. I annealed the balance and the issue was resolved. Recently, I had some S+B factory ammo do the same. I think its fair to assume that the brass left the manufacturing process in a very work hardened state. Perhaps some brass manufacturers pay more attention to this than others...
I think the only storage issue would be in a location that has extreme temperature swings.
Daily heating and cooling in an attic near the hot shingles maybe. The repeated expansion, contraction could make it brittle. I don't know how many cycles it would take.
Makes me think of a time I was buying factory loads for a 7-08 and noticed that some of the necks were already cracked upon opening the box. Sent the manuf an email and had a check sent out to me for the initial purchase amount.
Some great info here for sure on the topic.
