178gr ELD-X load

[Darewar]

Working up load for 178gr ELD-X, using Win 748 because that is what is available, my brass I match brand but lots not matched, this is my first 5 groups. I am new to the gun, which is Ruger precision gen 2 308, fairly new to reloading. Loaded COL as long as magazine allows at 2.880, should be around 30 thou jump would you keep going up in charge weight or work off one of these loads to further dial them in?

 

[remington jim]

What distance were this group's shot at ?

 

[Darewar]

What distance were this group's shot at ?

100y

 

[remington jim]

Ok I’m not being MEAN but those are HORRIBLE groups that rifle is capable of 1/2 MOA at 100 yards .
So What’s going on ? Rifle problem ? Scope Problem ? LOAD problem ? SHOOTER PROBLEM ?

 

[Darewar]

Ok I’m not being MEAN but those are HORRIBLE groups that rifle is capable of 1/2 MOA at 100 yards .
So What’s going on ? Rifle problem ? Scope Problem ? LOAD problem ? SHOOTER PROBLEM ?

Trying to figure that out, hoping to at least talk to ppl shooting this rifle see if they like the heavier or lighter rounds

 

[156821]

Try 42.5 again. If you’re not happy try a different powder.

 

[remington jim]

Trying to figure that out, hoping to at least talk to ppl shooting this rifle see if they like the heavier or lighter rounds

I have several 308 s 2 being Real Target rifles ! 308 Wins are not fussy I ve found over the years and will generally shot most bullets decent and most common powders etc etc Some thing is terribly WRONG .
What is your load ? What is your scope ? Is it a known good scope ?
Have you shot any other ammo from this rifle ? If so how did they shoot ?
Is this a new or used rifle ? History of it ?

 

[Darewar]

Try 42.5 again. If you’re not happy try a different powder.

Switch to varget maybe?... 43 would be decent group I might have pulled to get the one flyer

 

[Darewar]

I have several 308 s 2 being Real Target rifles ! 308 Wins are not fussy I ve found over the years and will generally shot most bullets decent and most common powders etc etc Some thing is terribly WRONG .
What is your load ? What is your scope ? Is it a known good scope ?
Have you shot any other ammo from this rifle ? If so how did they shoot ?
Is this a new or used rifle ? History of it ?

Rifle i bought used but was safe queen and right now only has 100 rounds through it, I use Vortex Diamondback tactical 6-24x50 with vortex pro rings, torqued to 18ftlbs, my brass is the only variable, it is previously collected brass and little mixed could this cause issues?
I measure out each load precisely, full size every time at .002 measure each one with headspace tool. Not sure what to do here.

 

[remington jim]

Ok But you missed answering a FEW of my questions? Reread and answer .

 

[Fyn]

Rifle i bought used but was safe queen and right now only has 100 rounds through it, I use Vortex Diamondback tactical 6-24x50 with vortex pro rings, torqued to 18ftlbs, my brass is the only variable, it is previously collected brass and little mixed could this cause issues?
I measure out each load precisely, full size every time at .002 measure each one with headspace tool. Not sure what to do here.

For those 100 rounds; have you shot any factory loads through it? If so, how did they shoot?

 

[remington jim]

As I asked in post # 7

 

[Darewar]

As I asked in post # 7

I've tried different ammo, this is 150gr fmj, the load I was using today it 178gr ELD-X 42-43.5gr loads 5 rounds of each on Winchester 748 and federal brass.

 

[270WSMXBolt]

I've tried different ammo, this is 150gr fmj, the load I was using today it 178gr ELD-X 42-43.5gr loads 5 rounds of each on Winchester 748 and federal brass.

So there is a potential for some pretty significant differences in pressures and speeds with the powder and bullet combos. Using mixed brass will have a case capacity issue that will compound the resulting ES. The best info you can use is a chronograph the next time out. I suspect your having extreme spread in speed/pressure. Try being extra consistent with your loading measurements and weights. Don't expect consistent results from mixed brass. That will be like trying to hang on to a greased pig. Cheers

 

[bdb.hunting]

Have you tried to find a factory offering of the projectile you are shooting? The 178gr ELD-X is offered by both Hornady and Federal. I only ask because it could help you potentially to see if the barrel likes that projectile at all?

I feel like the rifle should shoot better than what you're seeing as results. What is your shooting setup like? Rear bags? Front rest or just the pictured bipod?

Based on GRT 43gr is over pressure with that COAL, Powder and Projectile combination. Quick look at some OBT (Optimal Barrel Time) Calculations if you subscribe to that concept (I'm still testing) a node to try is 41gr and 40.4gr. Your speeds wont be record braking but its something to test if your itching to use this powder.

Different brass can have a different internal volume which can create a slight change in pressure but its hard to say without measuring it and Chronographing it at the same time. Are you collecting chrono data?

B

 

[Darewar]

So there is a potential for some pretty significant differences in pressures and speeds with the powder and bullet combos. Using mixed brass will have a case capacity issue that will compound the resulting ES. The best info you can use is a chronograph the next time out. I suspect your having extreme spread in speed/pressure. Try being extra consistent with your loading measurements and weights. Don't expect consistent results from mixed brass. That will be like trying to hang on to a greased pig. Cheers

Got it, seems like I need Chrono results that could tell me what's happening

 

[Darewar]

Have you tried to find a factory offering of the projectile you are shooting? The 178gr ELD-X is offered by both Hornady and Federal. I only ask because it could help you potentially to see if the barrel likes that projectile at all?

I feel like the rifle should shoot better than what you're seeing as results. What is your shooting setup like? Rear bags? Front rest or just the pictured bipod?

Based on GRT 43gr is over pressure with that COAL, Powder and Projectile combination. Quick look at some OBT (Optimal Barrel Time) Calculations if you subscribe to that concept (I'm still testing) a node to try is 41gr and 40.4gr. Your speeds wont be record braking but its something to test if your itching to use this powder.

Different brass can have a different internal volume which can create a slight change in pressure but its hard to say without measuring it and Chronographing it at the same time. Are you collecting chrono data?

B

Thank you for your help, so COAL changes pressures that much? In hornady manual with 2.8 COAL their max charge is 45.7gr i thought I was stay well under max pressure? Primers didn't seem to flatten but gun did kick hard.
My shooting setup is bipod which needs upgraded as it is not very rigid, with rear bag. I 3d printed my own bag rider it helps with stability. I do need muzzle brake to reduce recoil I think that would help with accuracy.
I will try the node you suggested next time at the range, I don't have a Chrono, at the moment, I do have friend selling one for decent price so might have to buy that as it would narrow down my issue.

 

[Nismojunky]

Have you tried shooting groups with factory ammo, Hornady edl match should shoot close to a 1/2 moa, that way u can rule out its not a gun or shooter problem

 

[Dylan4570]

try factory ammo. or a different powder, or a different bullet....

Different lots of brass typically won't make your groups that much worse.

Also, consistent 5-shot groups at 0.5 MOA may not be realistic for your situation. I would test with a couple of types of factory ammo and then build your expectations for handloading based on that. you should be able to slightly improve on them, or better.

 

[bdb.hunting]

Thank you for your help, so COAL changes pressures that much? In hornady manual with 2.8 COAL their max charge is 45.7gr i thought I was stay well under max pressure? Primers didn't seem to flatten but gun did kick hard.
My shooting setup is bipod which needs upgraded as it is not very rigid, with rear bag. I 3d printed my own bag rider it helps with stability. I do need muzzle brake to reduce recoil I think that would help with accuracy.
I will try the node you suggested next time at the range, I don't have a Chrono, at the moment, I do have friend selling one for decent price so might have to buy that as it would narrow down my issue.

So actually with a standard COAL its way over pressure and with you're COAL it's just over pressure. This is just what GRT says and likely every book or program they aren't always perfect. Have you looked at any other manuals? I have noticed before that manuals differ and can sometimes differ by a larger amount than expected with the same combinations.

I have seen some great groups shot off bipods but you have to ensure its loaded correctly (Leaned into the right amount.)

A chronograph is an extremely helpful tool in the reloading world. I can't recommend them enough no matter what type so long as its repeatable you're set.

Can I ask what you're shooting experience is and with what other rifles/cartridges? Also a muzzle brake can be extremely helpful in managing recoil so long as its a good design. Some brakes are absolute garbage and others are great but like all things you get what you pay for.

B