The original Silver Tip was a good bullet. The current PP is a bit tougher than the ST was.
PPU vs S&B in WIN 308 SP, 180gr - cheap ammo for medium to big game hunting, good or bad?
- Thread starter Simon015
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50m or so is a devastating test for any bullet.
Your bullet was at close to its maximum velocity. It takes a pretty tough bullet, monometal or H core, along with heavy jackets for reliable performance at such close range.
I'm not saying they don't work, but they're at and often beyond their design parameters.
I'm not dissing you personally, but most people just don't do enough research on their components, especially bullet types.
Many of them are highly specialized for special applications, such as long range performance, close range, heavy bones, soft animals like varmints and Coyotes, the list goes on.
We're lucky to have such a wide spectrum to choose from.
Pinpoint accuracy is always nice, but very seldom is it the reason an animal gets away, if the shooter is doing their part, even with bullets that reliably group 3inchs at point of aim at 100yds.
Your bullet was at close to its maximum velocity. It takes a pretty tough bullet, monometal or H core, along with heavy jackets for reliable performance at such close range.
I'm not saying they don't work, but they're at and often beyond their design parameters.
I'm not dissing you personally, but most people just don't do enough research on their components, especially bullet types.
Many of them are highly specialized for special applications, such as long range performance, close range, heavy bones, soft animals like varmints and Coyotes, the list goes on.
We're lucky to have such a wide spectrum to choose from.
Pinpoint accuracy is always nice, but very seldom is it the reason an animal gets away, if the shooter is doing their part, even with bullets that reliably group 3inchs at point of aim at 100yds.
PPU bullets are not the best. They don’t open up well on expansion. Even Federal blue box would be far superior for an ethical kill. Out of all the expenses in hunting with fuel, time and accessories, I don’t understand why people want to short themselves and the animal on a clean kill. There are plenty of .308 rounds at the 40-50 dollar a box mark that will do the job very ethically. To me, the animal and my time are worth more than saving 20 bucks, which will barely get me a sub sandwich.
Agreed, my bullet choices have changed over time. Accubonds, Partitions and Norma Oryx are what I load for game now.
I still stand by the SPCE not being a good bullet, I've had better performance from Winchester PowerPoints. Ribs shouldn't be that difficult at 2500fps, though it could have been a one-off.
Regardless, I've come to realize that a bullet (even if it is a $3+ premium) is the cheapest part of a hunt and it's worth using something reliable.
Nope, it wasn't a "one off" those bullets were designed to do maximum energy dump even when encountering soft tissue.
Bones, such as rib bones are enough to cause them to go into full expansion mode.
I know folks who want that to happen, every time.
I had a very good, but now deceased hunting partner who used Accubonds and similar bullets exclusively. He didn't care about meat loss, he wanted that animal down and recoverable in as short a time as possible. He was also extremely careful with bullet placement and like me, in those days, was absolutely anal about consistent and predictable accuracy out of our rifles and the cartridges we loaded for them.
Some of us have rifles we can put into the safe, after cleaning which don't require one or more fouling shots to be within 1 moa of poa at 100+ yards. Those rifles, will consistently put three or more bullets into such groups from a cold barrel every time, if we do our part. They are jewels.
Not everyone is blessed with these jewels, in fact the majority of shooter aren't blessed with such jewels, even with very expensive rifles making outrageous claims to accuracy with factory loads, albeit a specified factory offering, which is subject to change from lot to lot, in some way, usually powder/primer related or case manufacturer. An impossible claim to maintain.
In all honesty, I will readily admit a 2-3 moa rifle is quite acceptable for hunting large game at distances up to 300 yds if the shooter behind them knows how the rifle shoots and works within those parameters, not insisting he's going to "get lucky" and go for "head shots" out to just about any range. There are people who can make those shots consistently, but they aren't the norm and have gone to a lot of effort to get capable.
Ethics is a big part of hunting any game, even the poor little ground squirrel, gopher, marmot, or coyote, so accuracy is very important for clean kills.
Accubonds are capable of excellent accuracy in most rifles when shot out of proprietary handloads, but there are other bullets out there better suited for some jobs.
I disagree you would have lost that bear, the internal damage was very significant and he wouldn't have gone very far. If the bear had been at 75 meters the results would have been a bit less damaging but not much. At 150 yds the Accubond would have still shed a lot of weight but not nearly in such a nasty fashion and you would have been extolling its praises.
Good on you for learning from your experience.
Bones, such as rib bones are enough to cause them to go into full expansion mode.
I know folks who want that to happen, every time.
I had a very good, but now deceased hunting partner who used Accubonds and similar bullets exclusively. He didn't care about meat loss, he wanted that animal down and recoverable in as short a time as possible. He was also extremely careful with bullet placement and like me, in those days, was absolutely anal about consistent and predictable accuracy out of our rifles and the cartridges we loaded for them.
Some of us have rifles we can put into the safe, after cleaning which don't require one or more fouling shots to be within 1 moa of poa at 100+ yards. Those rifles, will consistently put three or more bullets into such groups from a cold barrel every time, if we do our part. They are jewels.
Not everyone is blessed with these jewels, in fact the majority of shooter aren't blessed with such jewels, even with very expensive rifles making outrageous claims to accuracy with factory loads, albeit a specified factory offering, which is subject to change from lot to lot, in some way, usually powder/primer related or case manufacturer. An impossible claim to maintain.
In all honesty, I will readily admit a 2-3 moa rifle is quite acceptable for hunting large game at distances up to 300 yds if the shooter behind them knows how the rifle shoots and works within those parameters, not insisting he's going to "get lucky" and go for "head shots" out to just about any range. There are people who can make those shots consistently, but they aren't the norm and have gone to a lot of effort to get capable.
Ethics is a big part of hunting any game, even the poor little ground squirrel, gopher, marmot, or coyote, so accuracy is very important for clean kills.
Accubonds are capable of excellent accuracy in most rifles when shot out of proprietary handloads, but there are other bullets out there better suited for some jobs.
I disagree you would have lost that bear, the internal damage was very significant and he wouldn't have gone very far. If the bear had been at 75 meters the results would have been a bit less damaging but not much. At 150 yds the Accubond would have still shed a lot of weight but not nearly in such a nasty fashion and you would have been extolling its praises.
Good on you for learning from your experience.
You gave incorrect link, it's SP not SPCE https://www.sellier-bellot.cz/en/products/rifle-ammunition/rifle-ammunition-sp/detail/143/
thank you for pointing out error of my way....
I shot a moose at around 100m with a 200gn accubond out of my 8x57, the bullet went in through rib and out through rib didn’t recover the bullet of course, that moose was led about 10m one way turned around and back to where I shot it. I think terminal velocity has a lot to do with how a bullet will perform. The combination of heavy for caliber bullet and slowish velocity made the accubond work perfectly!
Last year moose was shot at 280m with factory ammo(didn’t have time to develop a kid for that rifle) Hornady 178gn eld-x one shot the moose went down in a hurry, the bullet obviously did its job, broke a rib on the way in and stayed in! The bullet disintegrated leaving pieces all over, even found a piece of core in the hind quarter while butchering!!
At that distance the terminal velocity should have kept the bullet together or at least it was my thought!!
Anyway, I’ve used a bunch of different bullets over the years including lots of gmx/tsx/TTSX and and I had moose go down in seconds with one bullet and moose needing 5 rounds to finally go down lol( that one didn’t want to die
)!
I now favour accubond, partition, a-frame and hot cor for most of my reloading!
Last year moose was shot at 280m with factory ammo(didn’t have time to develop a kid for that rifle) Hornady 178gn eld-x one shot the moose went down in a hurry, the bullet obviously did its job, broke a rib on the way in and stayed in! The bullet disintegrated leaving pieces all over, even found a piece of core in the hind quarter while butchering!!
At that distance the terminal velocity should have kept the bullet together or at least it was my thought!!
Anyway, I’ve used a bunch of different bullets over the years including lots of gmx/tsx/TTSX and and I had moose go down in seconds with one bullet and moose needing 5 rounds to finally go down lol( that one didn’t want to die
)! I now favour accubond, partition, a-frame and hot cor for most of my reloading!
