303 Brit Projectiles

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mmcintyre1220

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Hey guys. Trying to put together some loads for my No4 mk1 Long Branch. Tried speer hot cor 180 grain rnsp and cam pro 180 rnsp but could not put together a load worth mentioning. What projectiles are worth trying out for this old war horse?
 
OP, your rifle was originally built to consistently shoot "issue" ammunition into a FOUR inch group.

Your rifle may not be capable of shooting tighter groups than you would like.

Have you checked the bedding? Is the King Screw spacer still in place? Is your bore on the large side of acceptable?

I've seen these rifles change from shooting shotgun like patterns to shooting sub 2 moa and even sub 1 moa groups when going from .311 to .312 diameter bullets.

Trying to compare an issue No4 sporter with a commercial off the shelf sporter, especially of recent manufacture is like comparing apples to oranges.

Some No4 Rifles will shoot extremely well, most will shoot well, some barely qualified for acceptance. It's luck of the draw what you get.
 
I agree, it was produced with the accuracy of a group of 4" being Good and a group of 8" being the low side but acceptable group. Not knowing barrel use, and condition. I've got a Mk4* and it's a battle to group tightly, but my other LE shoots better. They're good rifles, but remember , they were designed when a lot of innovation was happening. From black powder to smokeless, magazine type, smaller jacketed bullets, barrel length . Good rifles but useable in the quantify vs quality. Heck some Mosins shoot great, others not so much

 
The largest "factory" bullet you can get nowadays is the Hornady SP bullets of 0.312" diameter. Cam-Pro, Speer & Sierra are all 0.311". If your barrel's grooves measure 0.314", the accuracy you can expect [never mind the built-in aiming error incurred with the use of open sights] by using an under-size bullet of at least 0,003" would be no different than using a 0.305" bullet in a .30 calibre rifle and expecting stellar accuracy.

Remember, the original factory specifications for Enfield barrels are as follows: [Hint they have a 0.316" specification]

The us bullet makers figured that, since us barrels have 0.004" thick rifling grooves [0.300" + 0.004" + 0.004" = 0.308"; 0.450" + 0.004" + 0.004" = 0.458", 0.256" + 0.004" + 0.004" = 0.264"; 0.276" + 0.004" + 0.004" = 0.284"] then everything should.

You have a couple of options; you can design a cast bullet that is correctly sized for your chamber & barrel, or you can size down the next larger sized jacketed bullets [unfortunately until Woodleigh's are imported again, that means 8mm / 0.323"], or you can live with it.
 

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Many years ago on this site in a similar discussion a member , i can't remember who , suggested slugging the bore of the rifle to get a known bore size , and then go shopping for bullets or cast them.
I did just that.
Using a soft lead shot, I pushed it through the barrel with a dowel and a plastic hammer. Was easy enough to measure that and told me the barrel was pooched LOL the shot was hard to push the first and last 6 to 8 inches but passed throgh the middle of the bore with almost no resistance. the tightest it measured was over .314 so I moved on from that rifle.
I don't really play much with the No 4 rifles, but have had and customized numerous no1 sporters.
By and large the most accurate off the shelf ammo I have come to trust in the No1 Mk3 type rifles is the federal powershok 180gr (or 150) and I use those to hunt with exclusively and for accuracy testing any enfield I happen to take in. Not sure exactly what bullet they are using but it's a good reference point. With this ammo, my current shooter, a 42 Lithgow sporter with the barrel shortened to 19" , will shoot 2 inch groups (3 shots) at 100 meters reliably.... on a good day maybe even tighter. She's a bonifide deer killer this one ;)
I've also had decent results with PPU factory ammo and so I bought a few hundred 180gr bullets from Budget Reloading Supply back when Henry still owned it. Not sure if they still have stock but worth a look. I have not reloaded for the .303 yet but have all the necessary components and consumables for when the time comes.
 
bearhunter said:
OP, your rifle was originally built to consistently shoot "issue" ammunition into a FOUR inch group.

Your rifle may not be capable of shooting tighter groups than you would like.

Have you checked the bedding? Is the King Screw spacer still in place? Is your bore on the large side of acceptable?

I've seen these rifles change from shooting shotgun like patterns to shooting sub 2 moa and even sub 1 moa groups when going from .311 to .312 diameter bullets.

Trying to compare an issue No4 sporter with a commercial off the shelf sporter, especially of recent manufacture is like comparing apples to oranges.

Some No4 Rifles will shoot extremely well, most will shoot well, some barely qualified for acceptance. It's luck of the draw what you get.
Click to expand...
Bedding seems fine and the spacer is still in place. I have yet to slug the bore to find out its true diameter but will be doing that as soon as I have the time. The rife does shoot well with S&B 150 & 180 grain rounds which are both .311 diameter projectiles. I have ordered some .311 and .312 projectiles to see if maybe it just does not like the cam pro or Speer hotcor.
 
wesson357 said:
Try hornady .312 174gr. They obturate and shoot well in old oversized barrels.
My no.4 is .315".
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I had an EXC condition, Australian Lithgow, No 1 MkIII which are notorious for having bores on the large side of acceptable. I used to shoot .318 bullets in it to get very good accuracy.

It's to bad no commercial manufacturer makes/offers incremental bullet diameters any longer. I guess it's possible to get one off swaging dies made up, to either swage down commercial offerings, which are close enough to the size needed but why bother, unless you just have to shoot that old rifle, or are concerned about winning matches.

Wesson likely has good experiences going with the Hornady 174 grain, but which one? Flat base or Boat Tail, both were available at one point.

Flat base bullets usually shoot best in most Lee Enfields, no matter which mark. I also find that heavier bullets shoot well and regret that .312, 220 grn round nose are no longer available. I also find that exposed lead base bullets seem to obturate better into the rifling than enclosed bases.
 
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If the No.4 barrel is in good shape, Privi had 174gr FMJ bullets in bulk not that long ago. They've stopped shipping to Canada, and the loaded FMJ has been snapped up. Ditto on the comment about the service acceptance standard as 4".
 
I'm a big fan of the hornady 150 s they are my go to for the most part I do also like the sierra 180 as a 2nd choice
 
Another option of the bore is very large would be to use a .314 cast bullet and powder coat it to add a bit more diameter.
A single clear coat will add about .002, but if you cast them coated, then re-coat when the bullets are still warm you can get the second coat to add about .002 more!
Cat
 
bearhunter said:
Wesson likely has good experiences going with the Hornady 174 grain, but which one? Flat base or Boat Tail, both were available at one point.
Click to expand...
Depends on the rifle like all the other anecdotal evidence above. For example I have an enfield sniper ( ? ) I guess we'll call it, one of the selected and converted rifles never issued a scope, force matched to one at god knows what point. The bore is amazing, it so far has loved the 174grain boat tails as much as the sierra pro hunters. I found it weird to be honest.
 
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