303 ID. Yeah I know, "ANOTHER" Id post

[Dodosmike]

Ive read some here and on Milsurps,com but cannot find anything on my two newest acquisitions. Some similar info, just nothing the same.

Not looking for a value, I think they are both "parts" guns at this point, but thats what im trying to figure out.
Rifle A is marked:
MA
LITHCOW
SMLE
III*
1942

All double struck. Bolt and receiver are matching numbers. No numbers on the uncut mag. Plastic butt plate (ive not taken it off yet to look in the hole)
Rough condition, 5 groove barrel. Sporterized stock, cut barrel. Surface rust (cough "patina"). maybe even some weld on the top of the receiver.
5/10 condition. Looks very similar to: milsurps.com/content.php?r=138-1944-No.1-Intermediate-Shortened-Lightened-Rifle-%28Mfg-by-SAF-Lithgow%29




Rifle B is marked:
serial number
S (or 5?)
1943

receiver side is marked No4 MkI*
US Property

I think the "S" is for Savage. Uncut barrel, no sight hood, flip up elevation rear (battle?) sight, and what I think is an original stock that had the fore end cutback and sanded smooth. Original but plate is there and the hole is empty. Matching bolt and receiver, Ill have to check the mag again.
6/7ish out of 10 condition.

Pointers where to look for more info?

 

[FoymountFarm]

Rifle "B" is a Savage Lee Enfield No4 Mk1* built at the Savage Stevens factory in Chicopee Falls Massachusetts in 1943. The Brits had entered into a contract with Savage, circa 1941 IIRC, to build the No4 Mk 1 rifle. Soon after the Brits stopped/couldn't pay. When the US began the Lend Lease agreement the rifles continued to be built and shipped but were marked with the "US PROPERTY" stamp to help convince the US public that the rifles were really US property and would, at wars end, be returned. Political theater from Roosevelt for a cause he saw as imperative. Apparently some Savage rifles were delivered under the early contract and don't have the US PROPERTY stamp. I've never seen one. As almost all Savage built No4's were destined for the UK, some few (40,000 of some 1,190,000 built) went to China.

Marks to look for:

- A "B" stamped on the butt socket near the serial number. This is the British acceptance stamp. I can't see one in the picture posted. The flaming bomb is a US stamp.
- On the front receiver ring the word "ENGLAND" and a Crown over "BNP" (export marks).
- On the barrel near the receiver or possibly on the muzzle, .303 (cartridge), 2.222" (chamber length), 19.5 TONS PER square inch (pressure) and a Crown over BNP (all indicate civil use marks).
- maybe others.

From the photos you posted it looks restorable to mil specs if you wanted to do so. Savage stamped parts are out there, they just take some work to find.

As an aside, I have a 1943 Savage No4 Mk1* serial 40C0744 that has the "B" British acceptance mark on the butt socket but none of the export or civil use marks. I purchased it in Canada but have no history on how it got here.

 

[Dodosmike]

Thanks for the info.
I guess I should have added that yeah the receiver ring has all the "traditional" markings present.

Ill look for the B and the flaming bomb.

Any suggestions as to where to start to look for a complete stock? (haven't looked here yet)

 

[woodchopper]

need more photos of the Lithgow, but it sounds like a normal ShtLE No1 MkIII that has been sporterized.

should have a SC HV marked on the barrel behind the rear sight

cut barrel and stock are a problem if your looking to make something out of it

 

[Dodosmike]

need more photos of the Lithgow, but it sounds like a normal ShtLE No1 MkIII that has been sporterized.

should have a SC HV marked on the barrel behind the rear sight

cut barrel and stock are a problem if your looking to make something out of it

In reality, id like to turn it into cash ,lol.

I can add some more photos later. In all likelihood its going to get parted out/sold cheap.

And yeah, the cut barrel is a killer. Im thinking the sport stock has little value. I may just see if it shoots and whore it up and make it gaudy.

Maybe I'll ask my 7 year old niece to bedazzle it for me.

 

[woodchopper]

In reality, id like to turn it into cash ,lol.

I can add some more photos later. In all likelihood its going to get parted out/sold cheap.

And yeah, the cut barrel is a killer. Im thinking the sport stock has little value. I may just see if it shoots and whore it up and make it gaudy.

Maybe I'll ask my 7 year old niece to bedazzle it for me.

parts its worth a few $$, mag and bolt should get you $100-150.

but after that the rest of the parts are just give away.

complete rifle if functional $150-$200 should sell.

 

[Claven2]

need more photos of the Lithgow, but it sounds like a normal ShtLE No1 MkIII that has been sporterized.

should have a SC HV marked on the barrel behind the rear sight

cut barrel and stock are a problem if your looking to make something out of it

By 42/43 many light goes are just marked HC. Some will not have the SC marking, despite having the SC chamber dimensions.

 

[Dodosmike]

Rifle A the Lithgow is junk IMO, so parting it out

Rifle A the Savage, is matching bolt and receiver. Mag doesn’t match (either rifle)
Might hang onto it a bit and see if I can find some correct wood for it.

 

[Dodosmike]

Rifle B is a Savage.
Very complete and pretty decent condition
Might put the Monte Carlo from the Lithgow on it, I don’t know yet
Bolt and receiver match.
Hopefully I can get a round through it this weekend (loooooong string and a wince).


On another note, is there an orphan serialized numbers parts list? I have a PF305189 mag here that doesn’t match the rifles I have. Also have a non Serialized mag that may not be original, but WTH do I know. Lol

Anybody in the know see anything worthy of continued research or do I drop this on the EE for ### dollars as is?

 

[woodchopper]

lithgow has some nice wood on it.

 

[5THBATT]

Rifle "B" is a Savage Lee Enfield No4 Mk1* built at the Savage Stevens factory in Chicopee Falls Massachusetts in 1943. The Brits had entered into a contract with Savage, circa 1941 IIRC, to build the No4 Mk 1 rifle. Soon after the Brits stopped/couldn't pay. When the US began the Lend Lease agreement the rifles continued to be built and shipped but were marked with the "US PROPERTY" stamp to help convince the US public that the rifles were really US property and would, at wars end, be returned. Political theater from Roosevelt for a cause he saw as imperative. Apparently some Savage rifles were delivered under the early contract and don't have the US PROPERTY stamp. I've never seen one. As almost all Savage built No4's were destined for the UK, some few (40,000 of some 1,190,000 built) went to China.

Marks to look for:

- A "B" stamped on the butt socket near the serial number. This is the British acceptance stamp. I can't see one in the picture posted. The flaming bomb is a US stamp.
- On the front receiver ring the word "ENGLAND" and a Crown over "BNP" (export marks).
- On the barrel near the receiver or possibly on the muzzle, .303 (cartridge), 2.222" (chamber length), 19.5 TONS PER square inch (pressure) and a Crown over BNP (all indicate civil use marks).
- maybe others.

From the photos you posted it looks restorable to mil specs if you wanted to do so. Savage stamped parts are out there, they just take some work to find.

As an aside, I have a 1943 Savage No4 Mk1* serial 40C0744 that has the "B" British acceptance mark on the butt socket but none of the export or civil use marks. I purchased it in Canada but have no history on how it got here.

0C1 still survives & has US PROPERTY stamped on it which would indicate ALL had the marking, it is rumored some were scrubbed due to some not liking US property stamped on their rifles