Hi everybody, , I recently purchased a Fenton 14 gauge antique shotgun in good condition.

Unless you get a modern reproduction muzzleloading shotgun, it is probable that any muzzleloading shotgun that you encounter will have barrels made with welded tubes. There were different ways of producing welded barrels. Simplest was a longitudinal linear seam. Essentially all military barrels were made this way, along with many lower priced barrels.
The preferred method was to wrap a spiral ribbon around a mandrel, welding the edges together to form a tube. The ribbon might be a simple strip of plain iron, perhaps 3/4" wide. Or the strip could be made up of small bars of iron and steel welded together edgewise. The little bars could be twisted then squared up again. This produced an attractive welded pattern when finished. Find member Pinfire's thread on British guns. You will see examples of the highest grade of British pattern welded barrels in those guns. Barrels of this pattern used ribbons made of three twisted rods welded together.
Two hundred odd years ago, the best British barrels were those made of "stubbs". They might be marked Stubbs Twist. These barrels were made from used horseshoe nails. It was considered that the "hammering of the horse's hooves on the hard hard highway" compacted the iron and made a better barrel. It might take 14 pounds of nails to make a 2 or 3 pound barrel. That much wrought iron might be oxidized away from the repeated heat cycles required to weld the nails into bars, strips and barrels.
There were many different patterns created in welding barrels. At the time, they had names. If you search Utube, you will find a video of Belgian barrel makers forge welding tubes. The epitome of pattern welded barrels were probably those made in Belgium which had letters and words worked into the iron/steel matrix. There are surviving barrels with legible letters - "REMINGTON, PRINCEALBERT, ZENOBEGRAMME".
"Cannons Damas la Fabrication" and an elaboration of this old film "How Damascus Barels Were Forged in 1925".
When the term "Damascus" is used nowadays, it probably refers to barrels showing a curled spiral twist. There are those who maintain that such barrels are bombs waiting to burst. The concern is that corrosion in the welds has produced weak spots which could fail. Certainly not impossible.
But once again - most any antique muzzleloading shotgun will have barrels made using tubes forge welded from strips. The higher the grade the gun is, the more complicated the weld pattern will be. If you are gong to shoot one, you will be shooting a "Damascus" barrel. Damascus barrels were popular into the 20th century on better grade guns. I have a Model 1894 Remington double with very attractive two stripe Damascus barrels.
This is a bit long, but it is a complicated subject. There is lots of information out there about pattern welded barrels.
 
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Unless you get a modern reproduction muzzleloading shotgun, it is probable that any muzzleloading shotgun that you encounter will have barrels made with welded tubes. There were different ways of producing welded barrels. Simplest was a longitudinal linear seam. Essentially all military barrels were made this way, along with many lower priced barrels.
The preferred method was to wrap a spiral ribbon around a mandrel, welding the edges together to form a tube. The ribbon might be a simple strip of plain iron, perhaps 3/4" wide. Or the strip could be made up of small bars of iron and steel welded together edgewise. The little bars could be twisted then squared up again. This produced an attractive welded pattern when finished. Find member Pinfire's thread on British guns. You will see examples of the highest grade of British pattern welded barrels in those guns. Barrels of this pattern used ribbons made of three twisted rods welded together.
Two hundred odd years ago, the best British barrels were those made of "stubbs". They might be marked Stubbs Twist. These barrels were made from used horseshoe nails. It was considered that the "hammering of the horse's hooves on the hard hard highway" compacted the iron and made a better barrel. It might take 14 pounds of nails to make a 2 or 3 pound barrel. That much wrought iron might be oxidized away from the repeated heat cycles required to weld the nails into bars, strips and barrels.
There were many different patterns created in welding barrels. At the time, they had names. If you search Utube, you will find a video of Belgian barrel makers forge welding tubes. The epitome of pattern welded barrels were probably those made in Belgium which had letters and words worked into the iron/steel matrix. There are surviving barrels with legible letters - "REMINGTON, PRINCEALBERT, ZENOBEGRAMME".
"Cannons Damas la Fabrication" and an elaboration of this old film "How Damascus Barels Were Forged in 1925".
When the term "Damascus" is used nowadays, it probably refers to barrels showing a curled spiral twist. There are those who maintain that such barrels are bombs waiting to burst. The concern is that corrosion in the welds has produced weak spots which could fail. Certainly not impossible.
But once again - most any antique muzzleloading shotgun will have barrels made using tubes forge welded from strips. The higher the grade the gun is, the more complicated the weld pattern will be. If you are gong to shoot one, you will be shooting a "Damascus" barrel. Damascus barrels were popular into the 20th century on better grade guns. I have a Model 1894 Remington double with very attractive two stripe Damascus barrels.
This is a bit long, but it is a complicated subject. There is lots of information out there about pattern welded barrels.
I'm trying to see if I can find someone who could sleeve this 14 gauge to a 16 gauge but it looks like it's expensive. If I could get a sleeve in it then I could shoot a stronger load and even a slug
 
I am unaware of anyone sleeving a double. I wouldn't even try. Barrel wall thickness at the muzzle is probably too thin to allow reaming.
A single is pretty straight forward. The plug is removed and the reamer is passed through the bore. The liner is machined to fit against the breech plug face. Bore and liner are degreased, the liner is plugged, bonding agent is applied to the bore and liner, and the liner is pushed in from the muzzle until it is just protruding in the breech plug area. Excess bonding agent and the plug in the liner are removed, and the breech plug (with release agent) is screwed in. As it bottoms out, it seats the liner into the bore, with the face of the lug being in firm contact with the liner. Here is the single that I lined. The liner is thick enough that it could be jug choked if desired. Given the pitting in the bore, the gun wasn't a shooter, and I don't think that installing the liner hurt its value at all.

IMG_1903.JPGIMG_1904.JPG
 
I am unaware of anyone sleeving a double. I wouldn't even try. Barrel wall thickness at the muzzle is probably too thin to allow reaming.
A single is pretty straight forward. The plug is removed and the reamer is passed through the bore. The liner is machined to fit against the breech plug face. Bore and liner are degreased, the liner is plugged, bonding agent is applied to the bore and liner, and the liner is pushed in from the muzzle until it is just protruding in the breech plug area. Excess bonding agent and the plug in the liner are removed, and the breech plug (with release agent) is screwed in. As it bottoms out, it seats the liner into the bore, with the face of the lug being in firm contact with the liner. Here is the single that I lined. The liner is thick enough that it could be jug choked if desired. Given the pitting in the bore, the gun wasn't a shooter, and I don't think that installing the liner hurt its value

What I was thinking is, don't rem it just change it from a fourteen gauge to a sixteen gauge by inserting a sleeve
 
I believe there is no requirement for nontoxic shot in Ontario except when hunting doves and waterfowl.
Edit: oops, Cat already said that. OP, let's see your gun.

I believe there is no requirement for nontoxic shot in Ontario except when hunting doves and waterfowl.
Edit: oops, Cat already said that. OP, let's see your gun.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/5yKP6BuhV45b28Dn9

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6vH4vkJYHnLPoFBd7

I'm on a phone so that's the only way I can post it
 
I am unaware of anyone sleeving a double. I wouldn't even try. Barrel wall thickness at the muzzle is probably too thin to allow reaming.
A single is pretty straight forward. The plug is removed and the reamer is passed through the bore. The liner is machined to fit against the breech plug face. Bore and liner are degreased, the liner is plugged, bonding agent is applied to the bore and liner, and the liner is pushed in from the muzzle until it is just protruding in the breech plug area. Excess bonding agent and the plug in the liner are removed, and the breech plug (with release agent) is screwed in. As it bottoms out, it seats the liner into the bore, with the face of the lug being in firm contact with the liner. Here is the single that I lined. The liner is thick enough that it could be jug choked if desired. Given the pitting in the bore, the gun wasn't a shooter, and I don't think that installing the liner hurt its value at all.

View attachment 1000755View attachment 1000756
So I found a gunsmith that will sleeve it at $400 a barrel plus tax do you think that's a decent deal that would be changing it from a 14 gauge to a 16 gauge I believe. Or another option would be I pay $400 more and get the 12 gauge with the Damascus barrels and then sleep those.
 
So I found a gunsmith that will sleeve it at $400 a barrel plus tax do you think that's a decent deal that would be changing it from a 14 gauge to a 16 gauge I believe. Or another option would be I pay $400 more and get the 12 gauge with the Damascus barrels and then sleep those.
The 12 gauge you can see the swirls on the outside so I'm going to say that's a Twist Barrel
 
I do not think that would be money well spent. In the last Kidd auction, there were three fine British doubles (two were superior quality when made). Judging from the photos and the descriptions I am sure they would have been shooters as is, and all three went for about the cost of sleeving one barrel. A Belgian working grade gun went for less.
Shooting grade muzzleloading shotguns are not uncommon. Untold thousands were made and sold, and many have survived in sound functional condition.
Damascus, twist and other welded barrels are not unsafe to shoot just because of how they were made. It depends entirely on each individual barrel. I sleeved the one I showed above because it did have serious pitting. Had the bore not been deeply pitted, sleeving would not have been necessary. If a Damascus breechloading gun is submitted to the Birmingham Proof House, they will inspect it, proof it, and if it passes, stamp it for use with smokeless powder.
 
I do not think that would be money well spent. In the last Kidd auction, there were three fine British doubles (two were superior quality when made). Judging from the photos and the descriptions I am sure they would have been shooters as is, and all three went for about the cost of sleeving one barrel. A Belgian working grade gun went for less.
Shooting grade muzzleloading shotguns are not uncommon. Untold thousands were made and sold, and many have survived in sound functional condition.
Damascus, twist and other welded barrels are not unsafe to shoot just because of how they were made. It depends entirely on each individual barrel. I sleeved the one I showed above because it did have serious pitting. Had the bore not been deeply pitted, sleeving would not have been necessary. If a Damascus breechloading gun is submitted to the Birmingham Proof House, they will inspect it, proof it, and if it passes, stamp it for use with smokeless powder.
"Judging from the photos and the descriptions I am sure they would have been shooters as is".
I'll let you know if you're right. I bought the Burrow.
Dog, my impression of your muzzle photo is that the barrels are stout. I would ask a gunsmith to assess it as is because unless the pitting is egregious you may have a shooter already.

1756231632603.png
 
"Judging from the photos and the descriptions I am sure they would have been shooters as is".
I'll let you know if you're right. I bought the Burrow.
Dog, my impression of your muzzle photo is that the barrels are stout. I would ask a gunsmith to assess it as is because unless the pitting is egregious you may have a shooter already.

View attachment 1001301
That looks to be a very fine gun. Apart from apparent overall condition, I noted that the locks have cage type bridles - something used only on higher grade guns.
 
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