Joseph Manton Davies Street Beckley Square London

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dog697769

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Hi everybody I had posted about getting a 14 gauge but it turns out that one was no good so I went back and got a 12 gauge Joseph Manton produced in London on Davie Street in Beckley absolutely beautiful gun looks to be in shooting condition does anybody know much about this could it be a collectors item as you can see it does have some nice metal work 1000000107.jpg1000000108.jpg
 
Yes, it does have a significant value as a collector's item. Great buy for the $1200 you paid for it. Do a web search for what Joe Manton shotguns have sold for. Sure hope that this isn't the gun you want to pull the breech plugs on. Not a gun to be messing about with.
 
Interesting gun. I expect it started life as a flintlock.

If you're seeking information on Joseph Manton, you should find copies of the books "The Mantons" and "The Manton Supplement," by W. Keith Neal and D. H. L. Back. The first book was published in 1967, and the supplement in 1978. Second-hand booksellers are probably the best source for these.

Here is a label from the Davies Street period, 1806-1811 (from the Internet Gun Club).

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B_noser said:
It has always been a percussion.
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I stand corrrected. I was going by the Davies Street address, which Manton kept until September 1819, and the shape of the lock plate, which looks trimmed a bit. I see now that Manton started building percussion guns in 1816, though these were pellet-locks and tube-locks. Manton claimed to have invented the copper cap around 1818, but this is disputed. In any case, the Davies Street address marks this as a very early Manton percussion gun, and therefore a very desirable collector piece!
 
tiriaq said:
Yes, it does have a significant value as a collector's item. Great buy for the $1200 you paid for it. Do a web search for what Joe Manton shotguns have sold for. Sure hope that this isn't the gun you want to pull the breech plugs on. Not a gun to be messing about with.
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How did you know I paid 1200?
 
Pinfire said:
I stand corrrected. I was going by the Davies Street address, which Manton kept until September 1819, and the shape of the lock plate, which looks trimmed a bit. I see now that Manton started building percussion guns in 1816, though these were pellet-locks and tube-locks. Manton claimed to have invented the copper cap around 1818, but this is disputed. In any case, the Davies Street address marks this as a very early Manton percussion gun, and therefore a very desirable collector piece!
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Cool.That's in pretty decent shape, only a couple small issues. I'm going to take it out this week and see if it fires
 
Is the gun serial numbered? If so, it should be possible to accurately date the gun.

A friend had a Joe Manton 20 bore double (cased) made 1812, which had been converted to percussion. The barrels had new percussion plugs fitted and the locks were reworked appropriately. It really looked as if it were originally percussion.
 
tiriaq said:
Is the gun serial numbered? If so, it should be possible to accurately date the gun.

A friend had a Joe Manton 20 bore double (cased) made 1812, which had been converted to percussion. The barrels had new percussion plugs fitted and the locks were reworked appropriately. It really looked as if it were originally percussion.
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13431 13286
8027
Those are the numbers I can make out on the bottom of the barrel. But looking at how the markings matchup, from the
A breach to the barrel.I'm pretty sure it's original percussion.
 
Is there a number on the strap of the trigger guard?
When a British gunmaker rebuilt a quality gun to percussion, it is a rebuild, not just a conversion. Gunmakers could take a muzzleloading double and rebuild it as a breechloading cartridge gun.
You have a very nice gun there. 200 years old, give or take by one of the most famous makers. Take care of it.
Obviously I have not inspected the gun, but I think you got a real bargain.
 
I agree with Tiriaq. Conversions by someone like Joseph Manton do not diminish value in any way; they only add to the story. And conversions can be very hard to spot, even with the gun in the hand. In any case, your gun might have started out as percussion, but which kind would be the question I would have.

My guess is that 8027 is the serial number, dating it to 1817. As for the price, it is a bargain even if the gun is kept and treasured as a wall-hanger. It would have a place of pride in any collection of early percussion. Personally, and it is only my opinion, I would hesitate to fire it, or 'restore' it in any way, if you wish to maintain its collector value. I have seen too many historically important guns go from valuable to valueless by well intentioned efforts.

For those who might not know much about Joseph Manton, think of the gun being rarer and more important than a Purdey or Holland & Holland.
 
dog697769 said:
We're watching the same store. They had a four gauge, I would have loved to have gotten, but it's a little bit out of my price range at seventeen thousand
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Ellwood epps is pretty well known haha. I also recognized that tag instantly. How nice is that four guage? I was wondering about it since they have no pictures up, moreso out of curiosity than anything else.
 
In the Manton book 8027 isnt show but 8029 is for the year 1817 and by the book 8029 was built as a Pellet lock and the was converted to caplock by Manton and it is also the Davies street address. What are the marks under the brarrel is there initals WF which stands for William Fullerd who was a barrel forger and Manton also used CL standing for Charles Lancaster both who were top barrel makers at that time. So the other number may be from the barrel makes?
 
Pelcat said:
Ellwood epps is pretty well known haha. I also recognized that tag instantly. How nice is that four guage? I was wondering about it since they have no pictures up, moreso out of curiosity than anything else.
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It's a 12 gauge but at the tip it's a little under because it is choked. Definitely firing condition I put about 20 rounds through each Barrel today started out at 50 grains powder went up to 70 grains powder matching the amount of powder with shot I used number for bismuth and triple odd buckshot
 
Speaking of Manton, does anyone out there have the Manton reference books by Back/Neal?

Can you tell me whether gun #4932 is recorded in the books?
Thanks.
 
I just looked and 4932 isnt listed for either John or Joesph
For John they have 4896 and then 4985 in the year 1807
Joesph has 4811and then 4942 in the year 1809
 
Just got a 12 gauge manton sxs percussion, looks in real nice condition, similar scroll work on the hammers. For an absolute song too.

Only concern is theres some potential separation on the rear where the breech connects and the two are soldered(?) together. Anyone have one that can pull it from the stock and take a picture of the rear, tennon facing the camera ? Just so i can see if theres a “normal” gap between the two?




Edit: turns out one of the chambers is loaded! Anyone in the GTA have a 12 gauge ball puller i can borrow? Can’t find one online right now.
 
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