Next step after 243

pick the smallest caliber that has the wound ballistics capable of killing the game you hunt, with the least recoil and the cheapest to shoot. Don't buy a plethora of guns under the guise of collecting, you are better off spending that money you would have spent on those guns and buying ammo and likely getting into reloading to help the cause.

Boltgun
 
I was in a similar boat with my oldest kid starting to shoot rifles and hunt this year. I ended up putting a youth stock on my model 700 mountain rifle in 7-08. It was easy to reload for and found a reduced recoil load with 139gr hornday's going 2550 fps, will be plenty for deer as far as he will shoot and hunt. I already have full power loads worked up with accubonds and interlocks so its a bit of a no brainer for him to use it the next few years. Reduced recoil ammo is available for 7-08 if you do not reload.

The 243 is a capable cartridge but I would rather have young shooters with a 7-08 or 308 and shooting within distances they have practiced at, no reason for a new hunter to be shooting at deer 300 yards away.
 
A-bolt243 said:
I was in a similar boat with my oldest kid starting to shoot rifles and hunt this year. I ended up putting a youth stock on my model 700 mountain rifle in 7-08. It was easy to reload for and found a reduced recoil load with 139gr hornday's going 2550 fps, will be plenty for deer as far as he will shoot and hunt. I already have full power loads worked up with accubonds and interlocks so its a bit of a no brainer for him to use it the next few years. Reduced recoil ammo is available for 7-08 if you do not reload.

The 243 is a capable cartridge but I would rather have young shooters with a 7-08 or 308 and shooting within distances they have practiced at, no reason for a new hunter to be shooting at deer 300 yards away.
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Definitely seems like a good solution. My son has prepped well for the season and has shot about 100 rounds this year preparing. He is now saying that the 243 feels like a 22, which is good, as he is comfortable with it. As we start to become more capable for bigger game I want to make sure he is able to be successful, I’m confident the 243 would take a bigger animal, but some of the spots we hunt can be like a jungle, some more energy isn’t a bad thing. I saw some for sale that intrigued me, so will continue to see what happens.
 
I see quite a few votes for the 6.5 creedmoor. I have to ask for those that have the experience, is it really a step up from a 243 when it comes to elk and moose? I would consider those two pretty neck and neck myself, but haven’t witnessed side by side on game.
 
My teenage son started target shooting Centerfire with a 257 Robert’s, then hunted with a 260 Remington. After a couple years he moved up to reduced load 308 Win, then full power handloads at about 18.

As kids in the ‘70’s we started with CIL 180gr factory load 303 British in sporterized Lee Enfields, I remember how hard the military brass buttplates were! WK
 
BigBraz15 said:
I see quite a few votes for the 6.5 creedmoor. I have to ask for those that have the experience, is it really a step up from a 243 when it comes to elk and moose? I would consider those two pretty neck and neck myself, but haven’t witnessed side by side on game.
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A 6.5 cal would offer heavier bullets better for heavier game than what you would get with a 6mm.
 
If you handload then you can make almost any caliber work well for youth shooters. Lighter for caliber bullets at reduced velocity will do the trick.

More often than not it’s the gun fit, balance and overall weight that is more of an issue for the kids. Usually guns are too heavy or have youth stocks on full size rifles and balance poorly. The his is where “youth” versions or modified rifles are handy.

FWIW if you ever read ”Gone Hunting” by Pat Ferguson ( https://www.amazon.ca/Gone-Huntin-Generation-Northern-Columbia/dp/0973187719 ) he used a 243 with Nosler Partitions on virtually everything in Northern BC.
 
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BigBraz15 said:
I see quite a few votes for the 6.5 creedmoor. I have to ask for those that have the experience, is it really a step up from a 243 when it comes to elk and moose? I would consider those two pretty neck and neck myself, but haven’t witnessed side by side on game.
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6.5 cm will allow you to use heavier bullets on elk and moose. This is usually a good thing. 260 Rem and 6.5 Swede give you that advantage too, without much of an increase in recoil
. - dan
 
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BigBraz15 said:
I see quite a few votes for the 6.5 creedmoor. I have to ask for those that have the experience, is it really a step up from a 243 when it comes to elk and moose? I would consider those two pretty neck and neck myself, but haven’t witnessed side by side on game.
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100%
The difference is in the bullets that can be sent with the creedmoor.

Even a 6mm cdm is a step up from the 243.

Because of the cartridge design and twist rate, u can send substantially heavier (and longer) bullets and therefore be more accurate at greater distance.

Of course, a heavier bullet is only part of the equation. It has to be a bullet designed to do its job at the point where velocity and engagement distance meet. Its all about the bullet.

Traditional Monos need a lot of speed to expand so you need to be mindful of your distance. But a fragmenting bullet like the Nosler Partition or modern fragmenting monos like Hunter or Cutting edge will be effective at lower speeds.

I have engaged my share of animals with a 243, 6.5cdm, 7-08, and my GOAT 308. All of them died about the same, excepting that deer shot with copper monos at distances of over 250 with the 243 ran a bit before the toppled.

As much as I am confident that a quality 243 bullet would kill a moose effectively, i would point my 308 at it instead if I ever drew one again.

My 7yr old is still on the 223 (sub loads) but my wife now shoots the 243 with zero issues and has been hinting that a 6.5 cdm of her own would make a good gift for her upcoming birthday.

One rifle to rule them all for me has always been the 308 (loaded up and down) but i also have a 6.5 cdm and its really only sentimentality that keeps me reaching for the 308.

When i mentor a new shooter or hunter these days, the 6.5cdm is hard to look past.

Long post, sorry.
 
Beeron said:
100%
The difference is in the bullets that can be sent with the creedmoor.

Even a 6mm cdm is a step up from the 243.

Because of the cartridge design and twist rate, u can send substantially heavier (and longer) bullets and therefore be more accurate at greater distance.

Of course, a heavier bullet is only part of the equation. It has to be a bullet designed to do its job at the point where velocity and engagement distance meet. Its all about the bullet.

Traditional Monos need a lot of speed to expand so you need to be mindful of your distance. But a fragmenting bullet like the Nosler Partition or modern fragmenting monos like Hunter or Cutting edge will be effective at lower speeds.

I have engaged my share of animals with a 243, 6.5cdm, 7-08, and my GOAT 308. All of them died about the same, excepting that deer shot with copper monos at distances of over 250 with the 243 ran a bit before the toppled.

As much as I am confident that a quality 243 bullet would kill a moose effectively, i would point my 308 at it instead if I ever drew one again.

My 7yr old is still on the 223 (sub loads) but my wife now shoots the 243 with zero issues and has been hinting that a 6.5 cdm of her own would make a good gift for her upcoming birthday.

One rifle to rule them all for me has always been the 308 (loaded up and down) but i also have a 6.5 cdm and its really only sentimentality that keeps me reaching for the 308.

When i mentor a new shooter or hunter these days, the 6.5cdm is hard to look past.

Long post, sorry.
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Newer 243's seem to be available with 1-8 twist rates, negating that advantage. - dan
 
BigBraz15 said:
This is more or less just gathering thoughts and opinions. I have a few of my own, but wanted to gather some others. My son is just old enough to hunt big game this year, and has been practicing a fair bit with the 243. He is doing good with it and always wants to shoot something bigger. I know a lot of this is just seeking what he can handle. As we get past this year and into the next year or two, what is the next reasonable step up? I don’t have a lot of selection for him, most of what I hunt with are a stretch in recoil for a light framed youth.

We will be chasing elk and moose when we got into the next couple years so looking for a bit more than the 243 will offer with our style of hunting.

Any thoughts on chamberings are welcome, and maybe what was effective for you.
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6.5cm … Thats a no brainer
 
yup, the 108 eldm is a proven killer, if zee kid (or Dad) won't be rolling their own, and or, wants max factory ammo of the 'good stuff' find-ability on shelves over next couple lifetimes the 6.5 cm is the way vs 6mm options, barrel life advantage of 6.5 cm over the .243/6cm also...and on 308 that barrel life consideration quite a bit longer than 6.5 cm, make list of all the important possibilities from recoil, distance potential, resale, factory ammo availability etc. and then flip coin on 6.5cm/308 win
 
BigBraz15 said:
I see quite a few votes for the 6.5 creedmoor. I have to ask for those that have the experience, is it really a step up from a 243 when it comes to elk and moose? I would consider those two pretty neck and neck myself, but haven’t witnessed side by side on game.
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A 100gr .243 boolit is about .242 sd from recollection which is similar to a 140gr .270, a light-ish 123gr 6.5 is .252 and the gap only widens considerably as you go into more traditional 6.5 weights, there’s a reason the 6.5 has always seems to punch above its weight and over all others they had unusually high sd’s (heavy for cal) and such that penetration has not been an issue regardless of construction

Factor in .243 and say an old but deadly 0-300 yard 100gr partition and check out the bc of those...they run out of gas pretty quick past mpbr. A little 6.5 Grendel with the 123gr will catch it around 300 and walk away from there and land with more sd to boot. Easily add 150 yards of hit probability and more penetration while burning a dozen less gr of powder. The creedmoor is like cheating. It basically rolls all short action and long action old faithfuls into one easy to shoot cartridge. It’s versatility is unequalled. So many reasons it’s done so well and will take over where the 308 left off.
 
blakeyboy said:
A 100gr .243 boolit is about .242 sd from recollection which is similar to a 140gr .270, a light-ish 123gr 6.5 is .252 and the gap only widens considerably as you go into more traditional 6.5 weights, there’s a reason the 6.5 has always seems to punch above its weight and over all others they had unusually high sd’s (heavy for cal) and such that penetration has not been an issue regardless of construction

Factor in .243 and say an old but deadly 0-300 yard 100gr partition and check out the bc of those...they run out of gas pretty quick past mpbr. A little 6.5 Grendel with the 123gr will catch it around 300 and walk away from there and land with more sd to boot. Easily add 150 yards of hit probability and more penetration while burning a dozen less gr of powder. The creedmoor is like cheating. It basically rolls all short action and long action old faithfuls into one easy to shoot cartridge. It’s versatility is unequalled. So many reasons it’s done so well and will take over where the 308 left off.
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SD equates do diddly squat when monolithic bullets or different bullet construction enter the Frey.


Sectional Density is a simple comparator if bullet construction is the same, if different bullet construction is entered into the equation SD is just a BS number.

Wanna try jabbering more BS, go ahead you already are playing with half your deck missing.
 
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Lefty #### said:
SD equates do diddly squat when monolithic bullets or different bullet construction enter the Frey.


Sectional Density is a simple comparator if bullet construction is the same, if different bullet construction is entered into the equation SD is just a BS number.

Wanna try jabbering more BS, go ahead you already are playing with half your deck missing.
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Oh? Do tell, what are the important numbers then? Or if not ‘numbers’ then ‘criteria’? I’m all ears
 
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