Pls help with my fundamentals

[Ivanna]

I bought my first hunting rifle a Howa mini in 22 arc.
Most of my rifles are very heavy chassis prs rifles.
I noticed that without the weight I can notice movement when I hold the rifle against my cheek. As a result I’m only getting 3/4 moa to moa. Could it be the 88gr eld m ammo? Also the bull barrel is more like a pencil barrel it’s warm after 3 consecutive shots. I am planning on getting a straight preferred barrel 1.06 inch. I am not happy that it’s not shooting 1/2 moa. Things I’ve done, more free float, metal trigger guard, basic trigger.
Not sure what else can be done. I feel that it’s my shooting fundamentals perhaps when I load this rifle it reacts more that free recoiling. But I don’t want to free recoil. I guess it a hunting rifle not a prs. Once I get the barrel I’m putting it in a lss gen3 chassis. By then it’s should do 1/2 moa.

 

[Hand Skills]

I'm no expert, but since there are no takers I can suggest how I'd approach this;

First, I would try a few different bullets,

I don't have a 22 ARC, but in 1:8 twist 22cal barrels I have found 75gr bullets (and under) to be more forgiving. 80gr and up can be hit or miss in an 8twist.

I'd consider shooting free recoiling until I found a load that works, THEN start working on shooting form and positional stuff (which I happen to think is a GREAT idea!)

Straight barrel and an LSS are going to add significant weight - sounds like a fun build. Consider a 1:7 or a 1:7.5 twist if you want to lob the heavies.

Good luck and happy shooting

 

[iron cat]

I bought my first hunting rifle a Howa mini in 22 arc.
Most of my rifles are very heavy chassis prs rifles.
I noticed that without the weight I can notice movement when I hold the rifle against my cheek. As a result I’m only getting 3/4 moa to moa. Could it be the 88gr eld m ammo? Also the bull barrel is more like a pencil barrel it’s warm after 3 consecutive shots. I am planning on getting a straight preferred barrel 1.06 inch. I am not happy that it’s not shooting 1/2 moa. Things I’ve done, more free float, metal trigger guard, basic trigger.
Not sure what else can be done. I feel that it’s my shooting fundamentals perhaps when I load this rifle it reacts more that free recoiling. But I don’t want to free recoil. I guess it a hunting rifle not a prs. Once I get the barrel I’m putting it in a lss gen3 chassis. By then it’s should do 1/2 moa.

A couple of questions please.
he first is what are you planning on hunting with this rifle?
The second, is why do you need such a heavy rig ?
With all due respect, 3/4 MOA is perfectly acceptable for a hunting rifle , if you are looking to improve your shooting by improving your fundamental, adding or changing equipment is not the way to to it, you need to get with a coach who can watch your shooting form and understand how to fix your mistakes.
Changing bullets, barrels and stocks will not improve your form but may mask the actual problems you may (or may not) have.
Cat

 

[adamg]

You are going to need much, much more expensive equipment to shoot 1/2 MOA.

 

[Mr Bill]

Just a few suggestions, not a short term fix but a long term cure. Buy yourself a quality match air rifle and shoot offhand at the proper 10 meter targets. The ten ring is actually a small dot the size of a pin head. By the time you can score a 95/100 you will have SELF TAUGHT yourself trigger control, and literally becoming ONE with the rifle.

I know this doesn’t seem to address your current situation but adding ‘mass’ to a firearm and free recoiling is a compromise that doesn’t translate well into hunting scenarios. We have to look at ourselves as a big part of the accuracy equation, and as humans we are less perfect (that we care to admit) than most of the equipment we have available to us in this modern age.

I have observed that many MASTER class shooters had a strong background in precision air rifle/pistol in their early years.
50 meter offhand .22LR Olympic style shooting also elevated shooters into another REALM of precision unknown to those relying on truck axle barrels, chassis built of aircraft aluminum, bipods than cost more than a Savage rifle, a choice of target triggers that cost the equivalent of of 6 gas fillups for a Ford 150, and all of this parked on a concrete bench at a club, protected from the elements. Mother nature on the other hand may provide you (if you’re lucky) with a tree limb to rest the back of your hand on while holding your forend firmly. No free lunch and no free recoil at this party.

If you’re shooting consistently under 1 MOA you are doing well, 1/2 MOA is fantastic, 3/4 MOA ….WELL…. Most of us would secretly admit that’s still darn pretty good !! Hope some of this helps, best of luck and safe shooting. Cheers…

 

[Ivanna]

Well to tell you the truth I just wanted the action. For sub 1000 the howa mini action is great and I could not find a sub moa factory rifle out there in 22 arc. I had thought that until I get my prefit I can shoot it and see how it goes. Shooting a hunting rifle really showed me issues in my shooting that I did not know was there. Perhaps more practice with the rifle and dry firing is needed.

 

[Ivanna]

Shooting PRS heavy chassis rifles does mask shooting deficiencies at times.

 

[Hand Skills]

Dry fire is the way! It's amazing what 5min offhand can do if you repeat it every day.

Offhand results in a large wobble zone, which makes for a great trigger control workout.

Might be possible to work on reducing wobble zone and improving form at the same time


Edited to add; if you intend on using the safety while hunting, be certain to work this operation into your dry fire routine!

 

[rugbydave]

First off, expecting a factory rifle to shoot 1/2 moa isn't realistic, nevermind a lightweight hunting rig when you're used to heavy PRS rigs (that are just easier to shoot well, by design). 3/4-1 moa is what I'd expect from a factory Howa.

I'd try a few different varieties of ammo to see if the barrel shoots better with different ammo. After that, if no factory ammo shoots to your desired level of precision then re-barrel, drop it in a chassis, etc.

 

[Sniffer]

I bought my first hunting rifle a Howa mini in 22 arc.
Most of my rifles are very heavy chassis prs rifles.
I noticed that without the weight I can notice movement when I hold the rifle against my cheek. As a result I’m only getting 3/4 moa to moa. Could it be the 88gr eld m ammo? Also the bull barrel is more like a pencil barrel it’s warm after 3 consecutive shots. I am planning on getting a straight preferred barrel 1.06 inch. I am not happy that it’s not shooting 1/2 moa. Things I’ve done, more free float, metal trigger guard, basic trigger.
Not sure what else can be done. I feel that it’s my shooting fundamentals perhaps when I load this rifle it reacts more that free recoiling. But I don’t want to free recoil. I guess it a hunting rifle not a prs. Once I get the barrel I’m putting it in a lss gen3 chassis. By then it’s should do 1/2 moa.

Just want to confirm if this is a hunting rifle setup (ie light weight is of high priority) or if weight is not a concern?

You mention hunting rifle but then say you plan to put a straight truck axle type barrel on it (very heavy).

When you were shooting 3/4 - 1 MOA was that from a bench with a supported rifle (ie on tripod & bag)? To find the accuracy limit of the rifle it is important to remove all other variables.

Do you reload? If so you can play with loads (powder / seating depth) and things may tighten up a little.

As others have mentioned if you try the above and it still isn't giving the accuracy you desire then I would be looking at a new aftermarket barrel with appropriate twist for your desired bullet weight first.

 

[Ivanna]

Just want to confirm if this is a hunting rifle setup (ie light weight is of high priority) or if weight is not a concern?

You mention hunting rifle but then say you plan to put a straight truck axle type barrel on it (very heavy).

When you were shooting 3/4 - 1 MOA was that from a bench with a supported rifle (ie on tripod & bag)? To find the accuracy limit of the rifle it is important to remove all other variables.

Do you reload? If so you can play with loads (powder / seating depth) and things may tighten up a little.

As others have mentioned if you try the above and it still isn't giving the accuracy you desire then I would be looking at a new aftermarket barrel with appropriate twist for your desired bullet weight first.

It’s started as hunting but as I mentioned bought only for the action. I thought that while I wait for the barrel and chassis I can try and shoot. But I realized I have a lot of deficiencies. I have been shooting 88gr Eld m and getting moa so I ordered some 75gr eld m ammo. If I get better accuracy I will start to reload that. I usually try to find the best accuracy with factory match ammo then match it reloading. I have also been practicing dry firing. Getting good with a hunting rig/shooting sets you up well for PRS I’m finding.

 

[boxhitch]

1:9 twist , 75gr may still be on the edge

I am not happy that it’s not shooting 1/2 moa. Things I’ve done, more free float, metal trigger guard, basic trigger.
Not sure what else can be done. I feel that it’s my shooting fundamentals perhaps when I load this rifle it reacts more that free recoiling. But I don’t want to free recoil. I guess it a hunting rifle not a prs. Once I get the barrel I’m putting it in a lss gen3 chassis. By then it’s should do 1/2 moa.

then it wont be a Howa Mini 22ARC, will it?
would love to get 1moa out of a mini

 

[Onizuka]

How much cheek pressure are you applying? I’ve moved away from a solid cheek weld in PRS and now just rest my jaw lightly against the stock. I found this improved my groups.

This may not be the case but perhaps you may be loading into the buttstock with too much force with your weld. That can cause your point of aim to shift under recoil. A heavier PRS rifle might mask some of that, but in reality, pressing your face into the stock applies uneven pressure that pushes the rifle off-line.

Also, keep in mind that free recoiling and using only light facial contact aren’t mutually exclusive. You can still load the rifle correctly and maintain minimal, consistent contact with your face without driving into the stock (not suggesting you are saying this, but it wasn't clear reading your post).

As many have suggested, try dry firing both rifles side by side and see if the reticle behavior is the different between the two. That can help diagnose if it has something to do with your trigger press and body foundationals, rather than ballistic issues.

 

[Ivanna]

Thanks for all the tips. Has more mindful today of my shooting tech but also used the 75gr eld m factory ammo and getting consistent 3/4 moa the largest group of 5 and the best was 1/2 moa exactly. Very happy today. I’m sure with reloads I’ll get more accurate. Anybody interested in 3 boxes of 88gr eld m in 22 arc my rifle do not like will sell cheap.

 

[jcpal]

First off, expecting a factory rifle to shoot 1/2 moa isn't realistic, nevermind a lightweight hunting rig when you're used to heavy PRS rigs (that are just easier to shoot well, by design). 3/4-1 moa is what I'd expect from a factory Howa.

I'd try a few different varieties of ammo to see if the barrel shoots better with different ammo. After that, if no factory ammo shoots to your desired level of precision then re-barrel, drop it in a chassis, etc.

Would agree for the most part but my tikka t3x heavy varmint in 308 shoots 0.5 moa with hand loads

 

[rugbydave]

Would agree for the most part but my tikka t3x heavy varmint in 308 shoots 0.5 moa with hand loads

Sure, some do and some don't. She's also shooting factory ammo. I wouldn't expect every factory rifle to shoot 1/2 moa, hand loads or not. Tikkas tend to be good shooters and seems like you got a good one...