Longbranch and the Number 5 Rifle The Jungle Carbine

Canuck44

Canuck44

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I have a question that needs an answer. Did the Longbranch facility ever make the #5 Rifle? I don't believe it ever was supplied to the Cdn Army. I have a friend in the US whose brother apparently has a Longbranch marked "Jungle carbine". Is it for real or is this a bubba attempt to make a JC out of a #4 Rifle?

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Take Care

Bob
 
I've never heard of Longbranch making any, thought it was just Royal Ordnance and BSA but I could be wrong.

I've read that there was a company in the states called Golden State Arms Corp converting Lee Enfields for civil use and marketing them as Santa Fe Jungle Carbines in the 50's and 60's. The name Jungle Carbine would be marked on the barrel.
 
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The term "Jungle Carbine" originated with a US seller of surplus arms.
As mentioned, Santa Fe cobbled together bubba'd No. 4 rifles with nozzles on the muzzles. "Jungle Carbines" were more saleable than No. 4s at the time.
Small Arms Limited at Long Branch, Ontario, did not put the No. 5 rifle into production.
Given that "Jungle Carbine" is a commercial moniker created after production of the No. 5 rifle ceased, nothing left Long Branch marked "Jungle Carbine".
 
There are rumors of a limited run of No5 rifles being made by the Long Branch facility.

We had this discussion on CGN about a decade back.

One of the members, now banned? Derek Snowdey had one with all LB stamps. Claimed to have purchased it from a business in Toronto over 20 years previously and that there were a few dozen of them there. All were New In Grease, in cardboard boxes.

The rumor was that LB did indeed produce a very limited number of No5 rifles, which would make sense because there was also a rumor going around that No5 rifles would be replacing No4 and No1 rifles still in the system. This never happened, because all of the major powers were getting semi auto rifles.

In the case of milsurp rifles, never say never. A couple of hundred non standard rifles wouldn't have been considered to be a production run, but could easily have come about to create test beds for evaluation.

Still, tiriaq is correct in that there is no definitive proof that LongBranch ever made a production run of No 5 rifles.
 
bearhunter said:
There are rumors of a limited run of No5 rifles being made by the Long Branch facility.

We had this discussion on CGN about a decade back.

One of the members, now banned? Derek Snowdey had one with all LB stamps. Claimed to have purchased it from a business in Toronto over 20 years previously and that there were a few dozen of them there. All were New In Grease, in cardboard boxes.

The rumor was that LB did indeed produce a very limited number of No5 rifles, which would make sense because there was also a rumor going around that No5 rifles would be replacing No4 and No1 rifles still in the system. This never happened, because all of the major powers were getting semi auto rifles.

In the case of milsurp rifles, never say never. A couple of hundred non standard rifles wouldn't have been considered to be a production run, but could easily have come about to create test beds for evaluation.

Still, tiriaq is correct in that there is no definitive proof that LongBranch ever made a production run of No 5 rifles.
Click to expand...

Strangeday, he has cool toys.
 
I recall that discussion about the No. 5 at Long Branch. That is why I said they didn't put it into production. It is entirely possible that there was a run of tool room rifles - the No. 5 was being considered for standard issue. The light rifles made during that period are well known.
Some rather interesting pieces did come out of the shop at Long Branch, some official, some less so.
 
I had a chance, many moons ago, to buy one from Military Art and Antiques. It was definitely Long Branch made and the serial number was EX07. I was told that Long Branch made 30 as trials rifles and that 27 were believed destroyed. I was informed that there's on in the Canadian war museum in Ottawa. How much of that is true, I don't know but I do know that I held one in my hands. When I bought my ex OPP FNC1A1 from Ted Williams, when we were talking guns, one of the other guys in the shop told me he'd bought that very No.5 from Phillip Ennis at Military Art and Antiques.
 
When i was younger i worked by long branch and we had many ex workers that used to come into the lumber yard one fella sorry i forget his name worked in R and D he showed me one he took when he left CAL he had quite a few weird rifles back then
 
I know this is an older thread, but for the sake of anyone who comes across it, here is some interesting info for the record.

Long Branch did in fact make some No. 5 pattern "Jungle Carbine" rifles, but only for trials and evaluation. As I recall, they also have a special serial range of X-01 to X-25, but don't quote me on that. I believe officially only 25 were manufactured.

They are nearly identical to the British No. 5's, but of course, all LB built. There may be some minor variations, I have not been able to study one in close detail.

I have come across a few in Canada, but they are seldom seen. All in longtime collections.

There is a photo of one on the table (second from left) along with a number of other trials rifles. Notice the distinct butt-pad. Photo taken at Long Branch.

SAL-Long-Branch-Princess-Alice-and-display-firearms-1024jpg.jpg
 
Two thoughts come to mind - the Lightweight No.4 rifles which are neither No.4 or No.5, and the EAL rifles. There was a specification survival rifle similar to but not the same as the EAL.
 
The rumour is second rifle in from the front. Notice the Long Branch type convex barrel band.

The No.4 at the back looks standard but for the fiddleback grain in the wood.
 
I know I`m late to this discussion but, last yr while at the fall Orangeville Gun Show I handled 2 of the legendary LB Jungle carbines. The Old fellow who had them said they were tool room prototypes.(he`s in his 80`s) One was serial 005 and the other 006 or 7, J prefix
One had the typical No 5 butt stock the other a No4 type butt stock. He told me that there were around 12 floating around out there, one in the Cdn war museum and one in England. he said he acquired his back in the 60`s
Do I doubt their legitimacy, not at all. I do how ever regret not buying one of them.
 
During that time when they were looking to lighten the No.4 , Canada had our own experimental lightened version.
It was a successful entry in every way , but the Brits had to have it thier way .
One of the more interesting features is the buttsocket was removed and the rifle sat in a one piece stock.
On YouTube, Forgotten Weapons ( Canadian experimental light weight No4 ) has a vid on it.
 
Timberlord said:
During that time when they were looking to lighten the No.4 , Canada had our own experimental lightened version.
It was a successful entry in every way , but the Brits had to have it thier way .
One of the more interesting features is the buttsocket was removed and the rifle sat in a one piece stock.
On YouTube, Forgotten Weapons ( Canadian experimental light weight No4 ) has a vid on it.
Click to expand...
I have one of those rifles that was reused by SAL to build a sporter for a former SAL employee, mine is number 33.
 

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pcvando said:
I know this is an older thread, but for the sake of anyone who comes across it, here is some interesting info for the record.

Long Branch did in fact make some No. 5 pattern "Jungle Carbine" rifles, but only for trials and evaluation. As I recall, they also have a special serial range of X-01 to X-25, but don't quote me on that. I believe officially only 25 were manufactured.

They are nearly identical to the British No. 5's, but of course, all LB built. There may be some minor variations, I have not been able to study one in close detail.

I have come across a few in Canada, but they are seldom seen. All in longtime collections.

There is a photo of one on the table (second from left) along with a number of other trials rifles. Notice the distinct butt-pad. Photo taken at Long Branch.

SAL-Long-Branch-Princess-Alice-and-display-firearms-1024jpg.jpg
Click to expand...
I recall hearing somewhere that they decided to go in another direction in terms of lightning the rifle and they took parts of the stock out and shaved a little bit of steel here and there. I think the 3rd rifle from the left is in that pattern. One example of that did come up on a switzer auction a year or two ago.
 
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