Prescribed Antique Pistol with shoulder stock

[Old Guns Canada]

The highest serial number for a new Model No. 3 I have is in the 351xx range. The highest known number is 35796, so I think you would be safe to assume that RCMP will accept any of the New Models as antique. Some years ago, I met Richard Nahas at the Vegas show and he put me in touch with Roy Jinks. We had discussed the possibility that all No. 3 frames were made before the end of 1898, not 1899. Roy agreed, stating he only picked the 1899 date because that's the legal cut-off for US antiques...
As far as modifications go, knock yourself out! As long as the frame stays the same (and is antique), and you don't change the caliber to one of the no-go's you're good. You can cut off the barrel, add a shoulder stock, scope, laser sights...
The factory letters provide date of shipment, not date of manufacture.

 

[serg777]

Firearm Reference Number (FRN): 44864

• Valid As Of Date: 2025-03-09
• Manufacturer: Smith & Wesson
• Level: Manufacturer Specifications and Commercial Customization
• Country of Manufacturer: UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
• Serial Numbering: See Note

Calibre, Shots and Barrel Length​

FRN​	Calibre​	Shots​	Barrel (mm)​	Class​	Legal Authority​	Level​	Barrel Type Code​
44864 - 10	38-40 WIN	6	165	Restricted	CC 84(1) "restricted firearm" para. (a)	Non-Commercial Customization
44864 - 1	44 S&W RUSSIAN	6	102	Prohibited	CC 84(1) "prohibited firearm" para. (a)(i)	Manufacturer Specifications and Commercial Customization
44864 - 6	44 S&W RUSSIAN	6	102	Antique	AFR, Section 1, para. 7	Manufacturer Specifications and Commercial Customization
44864 - 2	44 S&W RUSSIAN	6	127	Restricted	CC 84(1) "restricted firearm" para. (a)	Manufacturer Specifications and Commercial Customization
44864 - 5	44 S&W RUSSIAN	6	127	Antique	AFR, Section 1, para. 7	Manufacturer Specifications and Commercial Customization
44864 - 3	44 S&W RUSSIAN	6	152	Restricted	CC 84(1) "restricted firearm" para. (a)	Manufacturer Specifications and Commercial Customization
44864 - 7	44 S&W RUSSIAN	6	152	Antique	AFR, Section 1, para. 7	Manufacturer Specifications and Commercial Customization
44864 - 4	44 S&W RUSSIAN	6	165	Restricted	CC 84(1) "restricted firearm" para. (a)	Manufacturer Specifications and Commercial Customization
44864 - 8	44 S&W RUSSIAN	6	165	Antique	AFR, Section 1, para. 7	Manufacturer Specifications and Commercial Customization
44864 - 9	44-40 WIN	6	102	Prohibited	CC 84(1) "prohibited firearm" para. (a)(i)	Non-Commercial Customization

Notes​

Make​

• "SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS. U.S.A." marked of the sight rib.

Model​

• "SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS. U.S.A.", over "PAT'D JAN.17&24. 65, JULY 11. 65 AUG 24. 65, JULY 25, 71 DEC 2. 79, MAY 11 & 25. 1880" or a variation of, is marked top of the barrel.
• "Model Number Three" was the Smith & Wesson designation for its top break, large frame, double or single action, metallic cartridge revolvers.
• the model designation is not marked on the firearm, the key features used to identify this model are the calibre, 44 S&W Russian and a 1 7/16" cylinder length.
• the cylinder length cannot be used exclusively to determine calibre of the firearm as many were manufactured with a cylinder length of 1 9/16".
• another factor which may assist with identification would be the serial number, which when greater than 15341 would indicate that the firearm model is the 44 DoubleAction First Model in 44 S&W RUSSIAN calibre.
• a total of 53,590 units were produced between 1881 and 1913.
• although catalogued by Smith & Wesson until 1913 it is reported that all receiver/frames used on this model were produced prior to 1899.
• features include: top break design; blade front sight pinned in place or target type sights; round barrel with rib; double action trigger mechanism; fluted cylinder withdouble set of notches; blued or nickel finish; round butt; walnut or black hard rubber grips.
• also available as a Frontier model is 44-40 Win calibre, and Wesson Favorite model with markings only on the cylinder.

Manufacturer​

• "SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS. U.S.A." marked of the sight rib.

Serial Number​

• serial number range is from 1 to 54,668.
• as these firearms were numbered sequentially, the earlier serial numbers would be on firearms made prior to 1898.
• all receiver/frames used on this model were produced prior to 1899.
• serial number is marked on the butt of the grip and may be repeated on the back of the cylinder.

Canadian Law Comments​

• some examples of this model, when manufactured prior to 1898, are considered "Antique" in Canada.

Remarks​

• this model is sometimes confused with the "44 Double Action Frontier Model". The 44 Double Action Frontier is chambered for the 44-40 WIN cartridge and the 44 Double Action First Model is chambered for the 44 S&W RUSSIAN cartridge.
• the model designation is not marked on the firearm, the key features used to identify this model are the calibre, 44 S&W Russian and a 1 7/16" cylinder length.
• the cylinder length cannot be used exclusively to determine calibre of the firearm as many were manufactured with a cylinder length of 1 9/16".
• another factor which may assist with identification would be the serial number, which when greater than 15341 would indicate that the firearm model is the 44 Double Action First Model in 44 S&W RUSSIAN calibre.

 

[scianna54]

 

[MosinMan13]

Serial Number​

• serial number range is from 1 to 54,668.
• as these firearms were numbered sequentially, the earlier serial numbers would be on firearms made prior to 1898.
• all receiver/frames used on this model were produced prior to 1899.

Read deeper. The receiver is the gun.

 

[serg777]

Read deeper. The receiver is the gun.

Absolutely.

but also let's consider this:
all receiver/frames used on this model were produced prior to 1899
some examples of this model, when manufactured prior to 1898, are considered "Antique" in Canada
the earlier serial numbers would be on firearms made prior to 1898

The rest is upon rcmp mood to decide on the spot. "Girl on the phone said" and a generic letter from 15 years ago without serial number - may or may not work. And no - they don't read this forum or advise with the mentioned experts on that matter.

 

[MosinMan13]

Absolutely.

but also let's consider this:
all receiver/frames used on this model were produced prior to 1899
some examples of this model, when manufactured prior to 1898, are considered "Antique" in Canada
the earlier serial numbers would be on firearms made prior to 1898

The rest is upon rcmp mood to decide on the spot. "Girl on the phone said" and a generic letter from 15 years ago without serial number - may or may not work. And no - they don't read this forum or advise with the mentioned experts on that matter.

That literally applies to every antique period, first and foremost how you’re caught with it and with what documentation and whom the officer is are always assumed. I wouldn’t put it past an officer to dispute the authenticity of an RCMP letter. This whole area is an obscure legal grey water pit.

*** edited out due to poor reading and even worse writing including bad advice ****

For whatever it’s worth, your historic letter should have a shipment date, which could be older than the date but also might not be, in any case it couldn’t hurt to have it.

Overall though keep this in perspective, these aren’t prescribed antique for casual joyrides in circumnavigating handgun law, they’re antiques and I would assume most people at the foremost want to gather as much provenance and documentation as they can anyways, as intended.

 

[C96 1897]

That literally applies to every antique period, first and foremost how you’re caught with it and with what documentation and whom the officer is are always assumed. I wouldn’t put it past an officer to dispute the authenticity of an RCMP letter. This whole area is an obscure legal grey water pit.

As far as the above is concerned.

1. All frames are produced prior to 1899, meaning in legal speak they’re all manufactured in 1898. Thus they are all antique.

2. Some models are restricted, even prohibited, also yes, some models came in calibers or were converted to calibers that would make it a restricted (or when combined with the barrel length) prohibited. You find this on most FRT antique revolvers. The 1877 Thunderer for example has like two pages so they can list out every possible iteration of classification.

3. Is irrelevant because they’ve already stated under their own documentation that they’re produced before 1898, and continued to be sold until 1913 or whatever it said.

For whatever it’s worth, your historic letter should have a shipment date, which could be older than the date but also might not be, in any case it couldn’t hurt to have it.

Overall though keep this in perspective, these aren’t prescribed antique for casual joyrides in circumnavigating handgun law, they’re antiques and I would assume most people at the foremost want to gather as much provenance and documentation as they can anyways, as intended.

In canada the cutoff is prior to 1898, in the states it's prior to 1899. Don't get confused between the two

In canada, if it's made at 23:59 December 31st 1897, it's antique. The next gun off the line, made at 00:01, 1 Jan 1898 is not antique in canada.

 

[MosinMan13]

In canada the cutoff is prior to 1898, in the states it's prior to 1899. Don't get confused between the two

In canada, if it's made at 23:59 December 31st 1897, it's antique. The next gun off the line, made at 00:01, 1 Jan 1898 is not antique in canada.

Another case of complacency kills, I’ll take the wrap on that, typing faster than thinking. Probably the better example of why you shouldn’t take anyone’s word alone over the internet.

In which case as long as your historic letter has it shipped prior to Dec 31 1897, that would safely demonstrate I would argue.

 

[scianna54]

That literally applies to every antique period, first and foremost how you’re caught with it and with what documentation and whom the officer is are always assumed. I wouldn’t put it past an officer to dispute the authenticity of an RCMP letter. This whole area is an obscure legal grey water pit.

*** edited out due to poor reading and even worse writing including bad advice ****

For whatever it’s worth, your historic letter should have a shipment date, which could be older than the date but also might not be, in any case it couldn’t hurt to have it.

Overall though keep this in perspective, these aren’t prescribed antique for casual joyrides in circumnavigating handgun law, they’re antiques and I would assume most people at the foremost want to gather as much provenance and documentation as they can anyways, as intended.

You guys should do more research on the forum, around 2010/2012 I guess, there were a lot of posts with a lot of info. Look for my user name and also Dingus.

Now you young guys come out and dig it up again because you can't buy a handgun. So far nothing has changed in regards to antiques.

Story is, you found a cheapish one in the US and want to import it, well, that's your risk in any case. Times have changed and nobody can give you any guarantee.

My advice, work a bit smarter, not harder, and buy one in Canada. The antiques I have were bought around 2012 and the increase in value is way less than all my other investments.

 

[powderman]

From: “The Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson”
“Although the New Model Number 3 was cataloged into the early 1900s, all frames were manufactured by 1898 making the gun an antique.”


From: “Flayderman’s Guide to Antique American Firearms … and their values”
“Although factory records indicate manufacture/shipping 1878-1912 … all frames were mfd. by 1898”


From: “Firearms Reference Number (FRN) 44864”

“although catalogued by Smith & Wesson until 1913 it is reported that all receiver/frames used on this model were produced prior to 1899.”

"all receiver/frames used on this model were produced prior to 1899
some examples of this model, when manufactured prior to 1898, are considered "Antique" in Canada
the earlier serial numbers would be on firearms made prior to 1898"


While it true that all frames were manufactured prior to 1899, it is also true that all frames were manufactured prior to 1898, according to Roy Jinks, Smith & Wesson historian.

It would appear that the Canadian Firearms Program is choosing to ignore published references to promote the disinformation that some New Model 3 frames were manufactured after 1897 for whatever reason.

Regards,
powderman