IVI 9mm specs
- Thread starter Light Infantry
- Start date
I do not have the current specs, but can tell you that IVI 9mm in the 64-rd boxes that was issued to the CAF during the 1980s and into the GWOT years was considerably hotter than its civilian equivalent. 124gr FMJ Bullets are NATO standard weight. It is the powder charge that differs (or differed) from civilian-equivalent ammo, lending the CAF-issue ammo its increased velocity which was originally designed to function reliably in blow-back-operated submachineguns such as the WW2 STEN and the later C1 (simplified Sterling) SMG. I do not know of the current specs have been down-loaded to commercial-equivalency for the new SIG M17 sidearm.
A bit of 1980s trivia for you - my original HK MP5 owners manual stated that Israeli IVI "Black-Tip" and Canadian IVI 9mm ammo were to be avoided lest it damage the firearm. If those specific types of 9mm were to be used, the MP5 was supposed to be fitted with a stiffer Operating Spring.
A bit of 1980s trivia for you - my original HK MP5 owners manual stated that Israeli IVI "Black-Tip" and Canadian IVI 9mm ammo were to be avoided lest it damage the firearm. If those specific types of 9mm were to be used, the MP5 was supposed to be fitted with a stiffer Operating Spring.
It's all good!
On the other hand, IVI 9mm and Israeli Black-Tip 9mm ammo are "No Bueno" in the MP5.....
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Nato Ball (Parabellum) CDN MK1
The 9 x 19 mm NATO Ball (Parabellum) CDN MK1 cartridge can be fired from either pistols or machine guns. The nominal projectile weight is 115 grains and the cartridge uses a brass case and a boxer primer. A special double-base smokeless propellant is used to minimize muzzle flash and the amount of unburnt powder. Cartridge lot 304IVI79, manufactured by General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems – Canada, remains in use as the NATO reference. Non-toxic primers free of heavy metals are available.
- Nominal Muzzle Velocity: 380 m/s.
- Accuracy: Extreme Spread at 25 m < 7.6 cm.
OkayShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Wasn't the ball ammo too hot for the Sig pistol as well?
I only ever seen Winchester Ranger when the Sigs were out.
BlackPowderBurner
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- the chesterfield
IVI was being used for the Navy SIGs within the last 10yrs, not sure if the spiciness was toned down any.
IVI 9mm has been significantly reduced in power since the 1990s when it would cause the Bolt of my personally owned C1 SMG to hit the Receiver's End-Cap! It was outright damaging to the Browning Hi Power Pistols, resulting in Slide/Frame battering and eventually loose tolerances and consequent degradation of accuracy. It was even worse for the SIG P225 and P226 pistols, with their softer aluminum Frames.
Check the dates on any random boxes of military IVI 9mm packaged 64 rounds per box that you happen across at local gun shows. If it is dated pre-2000, proceed with caution and fire only from a robust PCC or a handgun with a stiff Recoil Spring installed.
Only 20 m/s, now refigure your math with a 124gr bullet at that speed and higher pressures instead of a 115gr bullet. That older IVI was intended for sub-machine guns and being intended to run the slides reliably. I own a 1984 Sig P226 that was one of the RCMP trials pistols that developed cracking along the rear of the frame rails. Sig remanufactured new frames with the old serial numbers, had the RCMP stampings nicely ground off the left side of the slide so they look like they only wore some blueing off from holster wear, nice job. The new frames with new parts were matched to their slides and with 2 new 10 shot MecGar mags, the pistols were put back in their boxes then surplused (never happens anymore). I bought mine in Edmonton from Milarm. Since then I've met guys that bought one of these from various parts of Canada. They are still amazing pistols to this day.
Thompson486
Member
- Location
- Sherwood Park, AB
please do, certainly curious to see the results
I have three different headstamps of IVI 9mm: 95, 85, 80
The following velocities are average of three rounds
7' barrel PCC:
95 - 1349 fps
85 - 1332 fps
80 - 1346 fps
Beretta M9:
95 - 1152 fps
85 - 1191 fps
Just for fun, and because I had it available, we shot a round from the 7" barrel, into an old and well expired level 2A kevlar vest panel from point blank range. The bullet didn't come close to penetrating the vest. It made it to the fourth layer out of 21 layers of kevlar fabric.
The following velocities are average of three rounds
7' barrel PCC:
95 - 1349 fps
85 - 1332 fps
80 - 1346 fps
Beretta M9:
95 - 1152 fps
85 - 1191 fps
Just for fun, and because I had it available, we shot a round from the 7" barrel, into an old and well expired level 2A kevlar vest panel from point blank range. The bullet didn't come close to penetrating the vest. It made it to the fourth layer out of 21 layers of kevlar fabric.
Tough crowd.Nobody?
I went to all the effort of testing vintage ammo in a period correct carbine and nobody has any comments?
Sorry man its very interesting info.Nobody?
I went to all the effort of testing vintage ammo in a period correct carbine and nobody has any comments?
It seems that regardless of whether the bullet weight is 115 or 124 gr, the muzzle velocity of most commercial tops out at between 1150 to 1200 out of a pistol barrel. It seem the Beretta m9 used, puts the ivi in the exact velocity window as commercial.
So the ivi goes back to 1980 (1985 for the pistol, but extrapolation of data shows similar velocities). So we are dealing with 46 year old ammo. How far back does this velocity number go before it was changed?
Data keeps point back to 9mm nato is not much different than commercial ammo.
Standard 9mm Luger round is loaded to around 35,000 psi.
9mm NATO bumps that up to roughly 36,500 psi.
9mm Luger: ~1,100 feet per second (fps), ~350 foot-pounds of energy9mm NATO: ~1,200–1,250 fps, ~400 foot-pounds of energy
Enough a difference to cause issues? I don't know.
I should add that 9mm nato bullets are anywhere between 108 and 128 gr, with most being 124gr.
