Apparently IVI CF AMMO Sucks

The IVI 7.62 from 1977 seems to group decently with my Norinco M14. I have Czech ammo that shoots worse and Federal that shoot better.
 
NavyShooter said:
I recall that there were some lots of IVI 5.56mm C-77 (one or more) in the early-mid 90's that did not meet the specs. That was sold off on the US Market, and was quite popular even though it failed to meet specs. (That is the ONLY IVI ammo that I've heard of making it to the Civilian market legally...no 9mm, no tracer, etc....)

That said, in about 2000 or so, there was a lot of ammo used at CFSAC which was....poor. I was scoring for the KF, QM7, and he fired 6 consecutive bull/V-bulls at 300 meters. His 7th shot sailed up into the helmet. We both did a double take on that (it wasn't the first such incident that year) but had to proceed. The next round dropped back into the V-bull ring, along with another 2 bulls after that. I think he only missed the bull on that one shot. There were a number of "fliers" in that lot of ammo, but there seemed to be no external signs of problems with the ammo. *shrug* not much you can do.

Now, WRT the terminal performance of IVI ammo, well, I cannot speak for that as I've not yet been called on to deliver the ammo that way.

The Dominion Arsenals ammo from back in the 60's (65 was a particularly good year if I recall correctly from the old codgers) was abnormally accurate ammunition. I do not recall what the NATO spec is for accuracy requirements of 7.62 NATO ammo, but the DA ammo generally was of such high quality that it far exceeded those requirements. The extra costs associated in producing such high quality ammo were probably part of the reason that DA ended up closing down (just my opinion)

Also....I don't believe that DA ever made any 5.56 ammo in the 60's, though they did make some of the Flechette ammo for the SPIW back then....so it may have happened.

Bear in mind again, that I'm just a shooter, but from my perspective, the issued ammo is accurate enough. I'll let others with more expertise wade in on this now.

NavyShooter
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That's because the core was off center and the bullet never stabilized.

That ammo was sold off in the US but some of it made it back here for sale.

FWIW the DA64 was probably the best 7.62 ever made. It was match quality for combat ammo.
 
Even if your ammo only shoots 3 moa,at 10m-200m its up to you to put it in the right place.The bad guy doesn't care if he's been hit with ammo that isn't quite as good as someone else's.
 
Longshot said:
Even if your ammo only shoots 3 moa,at 10m-200m its up to you to put it in the right place.The bad guy doesn't care if he's been hit with ammo that isn't quite as good as someone else's.
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And what happens when you cant hit MOT (minute of torso) with a battle worn rifle multiplied by 3MOA ammo ?

:redface:
 
Okay here's the (quasi) final word. All those QM winners (Reg & Res) sure as hell kicked my civilian match ammo ass all over the range!! And they are using issued rifles and IVI ammo. :eek:

So who gives a zhit how accurate that IVI is ? Accurate enough to hold the VBull and Bull at those ranges. :rolleyes:

Peace be to journey
 
Individual rifles may have had problems, but as a whole, I have seen very few C-7's that will not shoot well.

There was one that I wore out....15,000+ rounds will do that to a rifle.

There was a year...2000 maybe? that the issued ammo had about 1/20 rounds as a flier. Nothing you could do....I watched the QM7 fire his deliberate at 300 (I scored it for him actually) and he shot Bull, Bull, V-bull, Bull...MAGPIE IN THE HELMET....WTF? I watched the round fly high into the helmet. No question that was where the round went, and he called it a good shot. *shrug* It was the 1/20 factor that year.

Other than that, the ammo I've been issued has been fine....no problems at all, and the only rounds I've ever been issued that missed the target are the ones I've fired when I wasn't pointed at the target.

NS
 
Garand said:
At one time part of the TQ6A course for Ammunition Techs included a tour of IVI facilities in Valcartier. Each course upon completion of their tour constantly brought up more and more quality control questions to the point where the invitation to tour the fascilities was permanently withdrawn.
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After a few years we wiggled our way back into some tours for the QL5's - they are not as indepth but useful for a trade perspective. The test establishments are far better than the factories.

I remember the days you refer to - we no longer teach QA to that level either as all the guys we had posted to the manufacturing facilites somehow had there positions cut. That IVI does there own QA and proofs pretty much says everything we need to say.

Geoff
 
Longshot , you misunderstood me. When the C7 came into service in the mid 80's, the quality of IVI 5.56mm ball and blank ammunition, was found very lacking for overall, unlimited use. Because of the difficulties, Canada went out at that time period and did a 1 time purchase of Belgian SS109 ammunition. In the late 80's, the Commanding Officer of one unit (in the area where I was posted to), because he couldn't get sufficent 5.56mm was buying it illegally from a local gun store with the unit's "coffee" fund. That is a big "coffee" fund!. I could never find out where they hid it during my inspections, until a few years later I was having a beer with a friend that was posted to that unit at that time and he told me that when I notified them of an upcoming inspection, they moved all the ammo to the HQ building furnace room!! Hey they were field engineers, what do you expect!!!
 
I've found the service rifle to be fairly accurate and the ammunition as well. I've never had to fire at live targets. However, I've always overheard others who have, show a total lack of love for the 5.56 round, wanting something larger.
 
Well, I can't really complain about accuracy. One: I've never done a proper match with my current rifle. Two: the last time I did a zero (a week ago), they had us zero at 25m. I had a nice 1/2" grouping...but what can you expect from 25m? Dead on target too, but that only proves my sight was set properly.

Quality control seems to be lacking in terms of visual inspection. Every day of my live fire exercise I found at least one or two dented rounds. I ignored it most of the time; it probably wasn't causing problems anyway. But there was one stripper clip that had two nicely dented - nearly crush rounds right in the middle. Makes me wonder.
 
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