Barrel Detent ?
- Thread starter FatCatsDad
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OkayShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Because some use the mag cap as a sling attachment. Greater chance of it unthreading.
Charger 426
Member
- Location
- Central Ontario
I think that ball/spring corresponds to indents on the standard magazine/barrel retention cap to keep the cap from loosening.
At least thats how it seems to work on my Remingtons- 870's and 1100's
At least thats how it seems to work on my Remingtons- 870's and 1100's
The ball detend is the older style mechanism and to secure a mag extension or mag cap. 870 Police guns still come with this type mag cap retention mechanism.
Sometime in the past ... can't remember exactly when ... Reminton switched to a different system with dimples in the mag tube and a sort of plastic follower/spring retainer... and on all 870s that were not supposed to have a mag extension. It was a cost saving change ...
In short ... if you want to run a mag extension ... you want a barrel with the ball detend...
Sometime in the past ... can't remember exactly when ... Reminton switched to a different system with dimples in the mag tube and a sort of plastic follower/spring retainer... and on all 870s that were not supposed to have a mag extension. It was a cost saving change ...
In short ... if you want to run a mag extension ... you want a barrel with the ball detend...
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Follow up ....
Remington uses two different types of spring retainers and 2 different corresponding mag cap retention mechanisms.
The Old System:
There was a time when all 870s came with the old system …. a press-in spring retainer that works with friction and the ball detent barrel retention system. On all these older 870s it is easy to install a magazine extension.
The New System:
At a certain point Remington switched to the new system and on all 870s that do not come with a magazine extension except for the 870 Police shotguns. For example my Tac-14 Marine came with the new retention system as did all my Wingmasters that I purchased in the last couple of years. Whereas all the 870 Police that I purchased in the last couple of years had the old retention system.
The new system is a plastic magazine spring retainer that engages with dimples in the magazine tube. And those dimples prevent any shells from feeding from a magazine extension. So in order to make a magazine extension work on those guns, one needs to drill out the dimples or swage them out as I had to do on my Tac-14 Marine.
The Problem:
But that is not the only thing to consider when adding a magazine extension to 870s with the new retention system.
These 870s do not come with a barrel that has the ball detent retention system. A magazine extension will screw on to the magazine and will lock the barrel. However, without a retention mechanism those magazine extensions come loose easily after several shots.
Now imagine you are shooting an 870 with a loose magazine extension. What will that do? With a loose magazine extension the barrel has some wiggle room with respect to the receiver … maybe one millimeter … maybe 2 … or more … and with every shot that barrel gets slammed into the receiver. It would be like pounding with a heavy hammer and a chisel on that receiver. Over time this will lead to damage …. and the most common problem I have seen is that the ejector will come loose.
What is the solution?
1.) You can ask a gunsmith like TACORD to add a ball detent to your barrel. This will solve the problem.
2.) There are magazine wave washers out there like the “Wilson Combat Magazine Tube Wave Washer” … an inexpensive solution and which I am using on my Tac-14 Marine. They are maybe CAD $5.- …
3.) I have played with Remington 1100 o-ring gas seals as a retaining mechanism … and it seemed to work.
4.) Other? There are probably other methods that I am not aware of …
Voila ….
Remington uses two different types of spring retainers and 2 different corresponding mag cap retention mechanisms.
The Old System:
There was a time when all 870s came with the old system …. a press-in spring retainer that works with friction and the ball detent barrel retention system. On all these older 870s it is easy to install a magazine extension.
The New System:
At a certain point Remington switched to the new system and on all 870s that do not come with a magazine extension except for the 870 Police shotguns. For example my Tac-14 Marine came with the new retention system as did all my Wingmasters that I purchased in the last couple of years. Whereas all the 870 Police that I purchased in the last couple of years had the old retention system.
The new system is a plastic magazine spring retainer that engages with dimples in the magazine tube. And those dimples prevent any shells from feeding from a magazine extension. So in order to make a magazine extension work on those guns, one needs to drill out the dimples or swage them out as I had to do on my Tac-14 Marine.
The Problem:
But that is not the only thing to consider when adding a magazine extension to 870s with the new retention system.
These 870s do not come with a barrel that has the ball detent retention system. A magazine extension will screw on to the magazine and will lock the barrel. However, without a retention mechanism those magazine extensions come loose easily after several shots.
Now imagine you are shooting an 870 with a loose magazine extension. What will that do? With a loose magazine extension the barrel has some wiggle room with respect to the receiver … maybe one millimeter … maybe 2 … or more … and with every shot that barrel gets slammed into the receiver. It would be like pounding with a heavy hammer and a chisel on that receiver. Over time this will lead to damage …. and the most common problem I have seen is that the ejector will come loose.
What is the solution?
1.) You can ask a gunsmith like TACORD to add a ball detent to your barrel. This will solve the problem.
2.) There are magazine wave washers out there like the “Wilson Combat Magazine Tube Wave Washer” … an inexpensive solution and which I am using on my Tac-14 Marine. They are maybe CAD $5.- …
3.) I have played with Remington 1100 o-ring gas seals as a retaining mechanism … and it seemed to work.
4.) Other? There are probably other methods that I am not aware of …
Voila ….
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the police guns are designed to be able to install a magazine extension. That's why the detent is there. The express models are not usually designed to use and extension, so the mag tube have tabs swaged into place for the second style of magazine spring retainer you have shown. Brownells even makes a tab removal tube to knock the tabs out so that you can use an extension. this is from the Ilion days, not sure what rem arms is doing these days.Follow up ....
Remington uses two different types of spring retainers and 2 different corresponding mag cap retention mechanisms.
The Old System:
There was a time when all 870s came with the old system …. a press-in spring retainer that works with friction and the ball detent barrel retention system. On all these older 870s it is easy to install a magazine extension.
The New System:
At a certain point Remington switched to the new system and on all 870s that do not come with a magazine extension except for the 870 Police shotguns. For example my Tac-14 Marine came with the new retention system as did all my Wingmasters that I purchased in the last couple of years. Whereas all the 870 Police that I purchased in the last couple of years had the old retention system.
The new system is a plastic magazine spring retainer that engages with dimples in the magazine tube. And those dimples prevent any shells from feeding from a magazine extension. So in order to make a magazine extension work on those guns, one needs to drill out the dimples or swage them out as I had to do on my Tac-14 Marine.
The Problem:
But that is not the only thing to consider when adding a magazine extension to 870s with the new retention system.
These 870s do not come with a barrel that has the ball detent retention system. A magazine extension will screw on to the magazine and will lock the barrel. However, without a retention mechanism those magazine extensions come loose easily after several shots.
Now imagine you are shooting an 870 with a loose magazine extension. What will that do? With a loose magazine extension the barrel has some wiggle room with respect to the receiver … maybe one millimeter … maybe 2 … or more … and with every shot that barrel gets slammed into the receiver. It would be like pounding with a heavy hammer and a chisel on that receiver. Over time this will lead to damage …. and the most common problem I have seen is that the ejector will come loose.
What is the solution?
1.) You can ask a gunsmith like TACORD to add a ball detent to your barrel. This will solve the problem.
2.) There are magazine wave washers out there like the “Wilson Combat Magazine Tube Wave Washer” … an inexpensive solution and which I am using on my Tac-14 Marine. They are maybe CAD $5.- …
3.) I have played with Remington 1100 o-ring gas seals as a retaining mechanism … and it seemed to work.
4.) Other? There are probably other methods that I am not aware of …
Voila ….
Painkillers
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
No. Well, sort of no.
Olde school Wingmasters all came with the detent ball on the barrel ring, and it's there to keep the magazine cap from backing off under recoil. Nothing to do with Police, or Marines, or Space Cowboys. Nothing to do with extensions.
The reason Express models don't have them is an economic reason. It costs extra to put that in the barrel ring. When buying a budget, economy gun or barrel, it won't have all the bells and whistles of more expensive models.
Painkillers
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Whomsoever's job at Remington it is to crimp the mag tubes, should be beaten to near death with said crimping machine.I bought an “XS Sights Remington 870 Magazine Tube Detent Swage Tool” …. And it has worked nicely on three 870s so far and to swage out the dimples in the magazine tube ….
Just keep in mind that current production Wingmasters come with dimples in the mag tube ....
Even my recently purchased 1100 Sporting has dimples in the mag tube.
My Model 870 - 200th Anniversary Limited Edition had dimples in the mag tube ...
And these are Remington's high end guns ....
It is not a question of budget vs high end guns .....
It is old system vs new .... !!!
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Painkillers
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Mag tube dimples are to restrict the number of shells the mag tube will hold. They have nothing to do with the detent.
Completely wrong !!!!! You have no clue what you are talking about!!!
The dimples are there to hold the new style spring retainer!!
And the new spring retainer also acts as the retention system for the mag cap .... it's grooves engage with the groves in the center of the mag cap. This is the new retention system.
Whereas the old mag caps had grooves on the rim and those would engage with the ball detent of the barrel.
There are two different mag caps for 870s .... the old ones ... and the new ones. And they do not work interchangeably.
Yes, both will screw onto the mag tube of an 870 ... but only if you have the right one will the retention system work.
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I have a newer Remington 1100 with the new style dimples and new style magazine cap.
And I want to add a +1 magazine extension to it ... and I have never seen an older 1100.
How is the old style ball detent done on older 1100 ??
Can somebody post a picture of how the ball detent is inletted into the wood forend of older 1100s???
How is the ball and spring held in place on the older 1100 wood forends?
And I want to add a +1 magazine extension to it ... and I have never seen an older 1100.
How is the old style ball detent done on older 1100 ??
Can somebody post a picture of how the ball detent is inletted into the wood forend of older 1100s???
How is the ball and spring held in place on the older 1100 wood forends?
Painkillers
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Wrong dimples donkey. We were talking about the dimples in the mag tube. Try to keep up.Completely wrong !!!!! You have no clue what you are talking about!!!
The dimples are there to hold the new style spring retainer!!
And the new spring retainer also acts as the retention system for the mag cap .... it's grooves engage with the groves in the center of the mag cap. This is the new retention system.
Whereas the old mag caps had grooves on the rim and those would engage with the ball detent of the barrel.
There are two different mag caps for 870s .... the old ones ... and the new ones. And they do not work interchangeably.
Yes, both will screw onto the mag tube of an 870 ... but only if you have the right one will the retention system work.
The Mag cap, faces the barrel ring where the detent ball is. I have several 870's.
Charger 426
Member
- Location
- Central Ontario
Painkillers, you need to sober up .... you can't even write one sentence that makes any sense.
And we are not even talking about following a conversation ......
I repeat, .....
... the mag tube dimples are NOT there to restrict the number of shells in the mag tube .... they are there to hold the new style spring retainer!!
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