Martini Henry adapter

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antiqueguy

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Years ago I bought a .45 colt/.410 adapter for the .577-450 these were available from old west scrounger. My mk4 shoots very poorly with .454 bullets as most mk4’s have a .453 or so minor bore diameter this is no supprise.

Anyone tired a larger bullet in .45 colt? I was looking at the lee .45 real and seems the 250gr version has a .454 base while the other driving bands step up with the top one being .467 just about right for the martini and my adapter(bore on the adapter .468 or so). Thinking it could be used as a heeled bullet for this application.
 
Have you tried using cast pure lead bullets loaded with black powder.With black powder the pure lead (soft) undersized bullets might expand enough to fill the bore on ignition
 
barbarossa said:
Have you tried using cast pure lead bullets loaded with black powder.With black powder the pure lead (soft) undersized bullets might expand enough to fill the bore on ignition
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The adapter doesn’t have anyway of sealing the chamber so I’d rather run smokeless.
I’m using hornady cowboy bullets and they are definitely softer. I think the major issue is the diameter of the adapter is large to fit the .410 shells so it’s just free bore from the adapter to possibly about half way down the long tapered throat.
For those not in the know the martini system has a throat that starts around .468 and tapers for 13 or so inches.
 
I have the 45 Colt adapter and use hollow-based lead bullets. My thought is like the old minie (sp?) bullets the hollow base will expand to the bore size. They appear to work, at least at 100 yards I can hit a piece of bristol board!

YMMV
 
wasa said:
I have the 45 Colt adapter and use hollow-based lead bullets. My thought is like the old minie (sp?) bullets the hollow base will expand to the bore size. They appear to work, at least at 100 yards I can hit a piece of bristol board!

YMMV
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Any good place to buy them these days I know jet hunter use to sell the webely hollow base bullets.
 
Been looking for a lee .45 250gr R.E.A.L but seems nobody has any. With the top band being .467 and the rest stepping down to .454 it could be loaded like a heeled bullet .with some lapping compound the rest of the bands could be made to drop .467 other then the very bottom.
 
I think something that most people ignore is that the diameter of factory martini slugs is .470 --- 450 refers to the bore diameter. I made an adapter chambered for 45-70 shells; two problems --- they were not accurate because they are too undersize and I will admit that some people do have limited success with similar set ups. If the adapter is not a very close match to the chamber in the neck area, the neck of the adapter will expand with the first shot or two, to fit the chamber. Also the 45-70 is a little longer than the adapter and both issues combine so that you have to push out the fired shell. I also made an adapter for a 45-70 shell where the chamber ended at the shoulder of the adapter and used a shortened 45-70 shell; the fired shells came out easily but there remains the problem of a lot of free bore, in effect, and of course the bullet is grossly undersize. What I want to do in the new year is to use the proper shells and paper patch .458 cast slugs sized to .470

cheers mooncoon
 
mooncoon2 said:
I think something that most people ignore is that the diameter of factory martini slugs is .470 --- 450 refers to the bore diameter. I made an adapter chambered for 45-70 shells; two problems --- they were not accurate because they are too undersize and I will admit that some people do have limited success with similar set ups. If the adapter is not a very close match to the chamber in the neck area, the neck of the adapter will expand with the first shot or two, to fit the chamber. Also the 45-70 is a little longer than the adapter and both issues combine so that you have to push out the fired shell. I also made an adapter for a 45-70 shell where the chamber ended at the shoulder of the adapter and used a shortened 45-70 shell; the fired shells came out easily but there remains the problem of a lot of free bore, in effect, and of course the bullet is grossly undersize. What I want to do in the new year is to use the proper shells and paper patch .458 cast slugs sized to .470

cheers mooncoon
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I have a proper mold ect just don’t want to waste 480gr of lead and 85gr of black at 25 yards. My adapter is one that came out of old west scrounger years ago for both .45 colt and .410. just so happens that the bore is around .468/.470 from where a .45 colt would sit to the end of the neck. That’s kind of why I’m leaning towards the heeled bullet with the lee REAL. It’s kinda fun with that long barrel and .45 colt at around 800fps almost surpressor quiet you can hear the striker and a thud at the back of the range.
 
mooncoon2 said:
I think something that most people ignore is that the diameter of factory martini slugs is .470 --- 450 refers to the bore diameter.
cheers mooncoon
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Not so—the Government bullet was 0.45" with paper wrap taking it up to around 0.458." Personally I cast .45" smooth-sided bullets (as original) and patch them up to about 0.46." Tremendous accuracy and very little fouling. People seem to assume that forcing larger and larger bullets into the rifling is the solution for accuracy, but fouling problems may become worse.

milsurpo
 
milsurpo said:
Not so—the Government bullet was 0.45" with paper wrap taking it up to around 0.458." Personally I cast .45" smooth-sided bullets (as original) and patch them up to about 0.46." Tremendous accuracy and very little fouling. People seem to assume that forcing larger and larger bullets into the rifling is the solution for accuracy, but fouling problems may become worse.

milsurpo
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The government bullet as you call it measures about .454 and patched up to .462-.465 ish. With grease groove bullets you definitely need a .467-.470 especially with a mk4 like mine they tend to like the bigger slugs. Main problem is the king tapered throat that starts quite large and tapers for something like 13 inches. Theirs guys who have tired everything for the last 30 plus years and come to the conclusion in the .468-.470 480gr bullet being the best bet.

That said I’m tired of wasting powder and lead at 25 yards and want to plink once in a while I think I have found a solution to my problem will keep posted.
 
antiqueguy said:
The government bullet as you call it measures about .454 and patched up to .462-.465 ish. With grease groove bullets you definitely need a .467-.470 especially with a mk4 like mine they tend to like the bigger slugs. Main problem is the king tapered throat that starts quite large and tapers for something like 13 inches. Theirs guys who have tired everything for the last 30 plus years and come to the conclusion in the .468-.470 480gr bullet being the best bet.

That said I’m tired of wasting powder and lead at 25 yards and want to plink once in a while I think I have found a solution to my problem will keep posted.
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My references say it was 0.450" but I'd have to pull one from an original round to be sure. Lots of guys buy molds casting 0.47" bullets because they've heard that is necessary. I have molds that put out a range of sizes of grooved and smooth-sided bullets. I've set the .47" mold aside, never to be used again. In fact, accuracy is so good with a paper-patched 0.45" bullet (very similar to the original) that it is all I'll likely load going forward. With proper waxed paper over the bullet and a thick wax cookie under the bullet the fouling is managed for 20 or 50 rounds. Great results out to 300 yards, which is the furthest I've tried it at. You can't go too far wrong replicating the ammunition of the time as closely as possible.

milsurpo
 
milsurpo said:
My references say it was 0.450" but I'd have to pull one from an original round to be sure. Lots of guys buy molds casting 0.47" bullets because they've heard that is necessary. I have molds that put out a range of sizes of grooved and smooth-sided bullets. I've set the .47" mold aside, never to be used again. In fact, accuracy is so good with a paper-patched 0.45" bullet (very similar to the original) that it is all I'll likely load going forward. With proper waxed paper over the bullet and a thick wax cookie under the bullet the fouling is managed for 20 or 50 rounds. Great results out to 300 yards, which is the furthest I've tried it at. You can't go too far wrong replicating the ammunition of the time as closely as possible.

milsurpo
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I think for full power loads I am going to stick to the grease groove mold much easier to load. I have thought about paper patching other rifles like my MLE and my .458 win mag for other reasons.
 
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