An Unusual Percussion Double. Identified.

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tiriaq

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This is a factory made gun using an iron frame, rather than the usual configuration.
I think it might be a Whitney variant. Whitney made iron framed single and double barreled percussion muzzleloading shotguns ca. 1870. The Whitney design was similar to this, but somewhat different. Not a Whitney - see Post 23. The Whitney patent date is from the same time period as this one, although the dates are different..
The barrels hook into the iron receiver, and then a screw down from the top forces a locking arm which engages semi circular cuts on the bottom of the barrel lugs to draw the barrels back against the frame, locking them to the receiver. Loosen one screw and the barrels can be removed. The ramrod channel in the forend was cut with a router. Simple forend attachment.
Serial number 35. Patent date Aug. 25, 1868.
I'm confident the gun was American made with an eye to economy working gun market.
Nipples need replacement. The gun needs a good, respectful cleaning. Bores at the muzzle are about .715".
Any suggestions?
IMG_2076.JPG Tight
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I have not yet disassembled the action. Removed the buttplate - the stock is retained by a nut engaging a threaded rod. I'll probably have to make a socket type wrench to engage the nut. All screws have turned out easily. Don't know that the nipples will - sometimes these can be a bit of a challenge. One might be repairable, but the other is broken. Dry firing, no doubt. A good penetrant, a properly fitting wrench and patience might do the job.
 
That certainly is “interesting”. Not sure I would agree that the forend was routed for the ramrod, looks hand done to me but I don’t have the item “in hand” and pictures don’t always show some details snd also can punctuate details. Thanks for sharing. Never seen anything like that before.
 
The ramrod channel is cleanly cut, radiused on the bottom and finished with a radius. Pretty sure the groove was cut with a single pass with a rotating router style bit.
 
tiriaq said:
The ramrod channel is cleanly cut, radiused on the bottom and finished with a radius.
Click to expand...
Easily done with scrapers. It could very well be done with a router but, based on the picture, I would think not. However, like I said, with the piece in hand I may see it differently. A big clue would be if the termination (toward the action) is rounded like it was made with a router but it vertical as if the radius terminus has vertical sides it was likely made with a drill and from the pic, it appears to show evidence of a circle on the floor of the groove as would be left from a drill bit. I dunno.
 
Quite a difference between the work done in a first class British gunmaking shop ca1815 and in a US factory ca 1870...
Here's a closeup of the end of the channel:
IMG_2085.JPG
 
tiriaq said:
Quite a difference between the work done in a first class British gunmaking shop ca1815 and in a US factory ca 1870...
Here's a closeup of the end of the channel:
View attachment 1057651
Click to expand...
Thank you for the closeup picture. Still makes me go “hmmmmm”. However, Since I respect your opinion and you have the piece in hand, I will defer to your assessment. Interesting gun for sure. 👍
 
It really looks as if a bit was used to make a plunge cut to finish the end of the channel. There are longitudinal scrape marks, but from tools or the metal cap at the end of the ramrod, I don't know.
I like muzzleloading shotguns and have been collecting them for a while. Couple of flints, some percussion conversions, numerous percussion guns; a wide variety of qualities ranging from superior to modest. Big ones, little ones. Some HBC singles and doubles. Many are in shooting condition.
This gun is an odd one, haven't seen anything like it previously. At first glance, with the iron frame, I hoped it was a Michael Mater, Chippawa CW. Second glance, no way. Mater's iron framed guns are different.
 
Got the nipples out. One was broken from dry firing, the other damaged. Used a tight fitting nipple wrench (tight enough it had to be tapped on to the flats) and oil. Broken nipple yielded first. Damaged one was reluctant. The corner of one flat had been previously rounded, so the wrench tended to slip. Restored the damaged nipple; the broken one will need to be replaced. US gun, so nipples look to be standard 1/4-28 two flat type. The broken nipple was hardened. Good thing I was able to turn them out. Drilling and extracting the pieces would have been fun.
Nipples aren't 1/4". Smaller. About .230". Might have to make a replacement...
 
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Went through my odds and ends of nipples. No luck. Instead of making a nipple, I think I'll repair this one. Anneal the stump. File down the broken tube. Drill into the base to make a socket. Silver braze in a replacement tube made from a drill shank (tough steel, won't require heat treating). Trim and turn to correct diameter, and taper for caps. Might not be a long term fix, but should be OK for limited use if I decide the shoot the gun.
 
Thanks for that tip. I have made replacement nipples and "modernized" the lower end of an old musket nipple to reduce blow back, but it never occurred to me that the tube could be replaced. Another tool in the old mental tool box🙂





























































































































































lower
 
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Repaired the damaged nipple. Drilled through a steel rod, turned to diameter, turned a 1/8" reduced section. Cleaned off the broken tube, drilled a 1/8" diameter socket, silver brazed the new tube in place. Trimmed and turned to shape.
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The replacement tube bottoms in the socket in the nipple base, so impact shouldn't be a problem. I used high temperature silver braze paste to make the joint. Don't know that this would be a permanent repair for a working gun, but will serve the purpose for this antique. Looks a lot better. From the marks in the hammer nose, it had been dry fired quite a bit with the nipple broken. I suppose some folks don't know any better, or just don't care.
Haven't decided if the gun is a shooter or not. The bores do have some pitting as is often the case. Haven't thoroughly scoured them yet, just wiped them out.
 
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