Annealing and the order of operations
- Thread starter redneck09
- Start date
If I am re-forming to another cartridge [eg. 8x57 to 9.3x57] I'll do it both before & after.
If it's because some of the cases in a group start to develop stress cracks on the necks, I'll do it before sizing, so as to avoid any further damage.
I figure that if I am trying to avoid further damage due to overwork, why do more, potentially damaging, work [ie. sizing] before annealing.
If it's because some of the cases in a group start to develop stress cracks on the necks, I'll do it before sizing, so as to avoid any further damage.
I figure that if I am trying to avoid further damage due to overwork, why do more, potentially damaging, work [ie. sizing] before annealing.
Bubba Yugga
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Midwestern Ontario
If you anneal at the start of your brass prep, you have a known amount of actions that led to your bullet seating stage.
Hence, a known, consistent shoulder bump, neck size and tension.
Otherwise, you've got no clue what you're stuffing your bullets into, nor how it's gonna chamber.
There's a big jump in brass hardness between first and all the subsequent firings until the next anneal so, if you're NOT annealing every time, you'll only have a slight consistency in springback between second and subsequent firings, but a huge deviation from the first.
If they're mag dump plinkers, who cares? But that's not why I reload, so I anneal at the start of EACH brass prep.
Hence, a known, consistent shoulder bump, neck size and tension.
Otherwise, you've got no clue what you're stuffing your bullets into, nor how it's gonna chamber.
There's a big jump in brass hardness between first and all the subsequent firings until the next anneal so, if you're NOT annealing every time, you'll only have a slight consistency in springback between second and subsequent firings, but a huge deviation from the first.
If they're mag dump plinkers, who cares? But that's not why I reload, so I anneal at the start of EACH brass prep.
I had Lapua cases that probably made 10 trips through a couple different rifles before I started annealing. Out of a 1000 original cases I probably tossed less than 20 cases because of split necks.
Now I anneal every 2nd time loaded. The reason for annealing is to get your brass in the same state of hardness/softness before resizing. In therory the necks will resize and spring back the same on every case and well as bump the shoulder back the same for every case. Trimming and chamfer comes after resizing.
Now I anneal every 2nd time loaded. The reason for annealing is to get your brass in the same state of hardness/softness before resizing. In therory the necks will resize and spring back the same on every case and well as bump the shoulder back the same for every case. Trimming and chamfer comes after resizing.
That theory makes some sense but you could also say that the case necks should be annealed and lubed right before the bullet gets seated. You want your brass to be in the same state so that the say 0.002 of case neck interference holds the bullet the same. You could be concerned about work hardening your necks before seating by sizing.
Maybe someone has some hard data on this. I know guys are recording seating pressure now.
Bubba Yugga
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Midwestern Ontario
Sure, why not? Except that it would have to be in ADDITION to the annealing BEFORE sizing if you want predictable neck dimensioning.
Any work hardening from the brass prep is minimal compared to the ~50,000 PSI violence of firing, and it should be repeatably consistent.
And, CONSISTENCY is the magic mantra we all need to repeat in our heads...
After shooting I decap, clean, anneal, full-length size, mandrel expand, trim/chamfer, prime, charge and seat bullets. I follow that process every single time.
My reason for annealing before sizing is that brass is worked hardest on firing, so by annealing after firing and before every step in the brass prep., the rest of the process will happen on neck/shoulder that has had that work mitigated by annealing. This makes sense to me.
My reason for annealing before sizing is that brass is worked hardest on firing, so by annealing after firing and before every step in the brass prep., the rest of the process will happen on neck/shoulder that has had that work mitigated by annealing. This makes sense to me.
There would be a live primer in the case if you are annealing before seating? I suggest wearing safety glasses and hearing protection.
Here is my method of reloading.
Deprime
Wet tumble to clean
Dry in oven at 200F for 20 minutes.
Anneal (if required, only every second loading)
Resize
Tumble in corn cob to remove lube
Trim (this also chamfers inside and outside in one operation)
Prime
Weigh each charge and seat bullet.
I do not lube the inside of the case necks before seating the bullet.
Here is my method of reloading.
Deprime
Wet tumble to clean
Dry in oven at 200F for 20 minutes.
Anneal (if required, only every second loading)
Resize
Tumble in corn cob to remove lube
Trim (this also chamfers inside and outside in one operation)
Prime
Weigh each charge and seat bullet.
I do not lube the inside of the case necks before seating the bullet.
Bubba Yugga
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Midwestern Ontario
My sequence is like duzr's, except I use a Redding body only sizing die to .002" shoulder bump, then Lee Collet neck sizer before touching it with a Century 21 expanding mandrel.
That keeps the total amount of dimensional change of the neck to an absolute minimum.
The mandrel gets maybe half a thou max.
That keeps the total amount of dimensional change of the neck to an absolute minimum.
The mandrel gets maybe half a thou max.
I don’t but I’m not sure if it would make a difference if you anneal every time after sizing. I just haven’t seen any data to back it up. Maybe it’s out there. I’m just trying to understand the process better. Sorry if I got you all worked up.Why the hell would you anneal after sizing?
The whole point of annealing is to bring the brass to a neutral state so that sizing and then bullet seating is consistent.
Also some people do anneal just to extend brass life.
Annealing wasn't a big deal until about 10-15 years ago. Sure some articales in Precision Shooting talked about it, but that was mostly Bench Rest shooting related. Annealing was kind of a black magic/voodoo thing that Benchrest shooters did. Then came along a bunch of machines that made annealing and pretty simple process, and people jumped on it.
I remember one article where a guy shot a world record 1000 yard group using Lapua brass that he had fired over 30 times and he annealed after every firing. No mention about how many 10" groups he shot with the same brass on his way to his world record.
I only anneal every second firing because I don't feel that my brass is getting work hardened to the point it is hindering my result on paper. I have a couple thousand Lapua cases so when it comes time to anneal I will do 500-1000 at a time.
I remember one article where a guy shot a world record 1000 yard group using Lapua brass that he had fired over 30 times and he annealed after every firing. No mention about how many 10" groups he shot with the same brass on his way to his world record.
I only anneal every second firing because I don't feel that my brass is getting work hardened to the point it is hindering my result on paper. I have a couple thousand Lapua cases so when it comes time to anneal I will do 500-1000 at a time.
I'm just curious why you choose not to lube case neck before bullet seating. New to reloading and enjoying it immensely along with learning the various techniques and opinions.
It’s all about how much the brass springs back after being squished and expanded by the die and ball. Annealing before subjecting it to the resizing will make it spring back more consistently resulting a more consistent final dimensions and neck tension.
I'll be starting to try to reload for 6.5 Dutch soon. It will involve me resizing 303 British through a couple different dies. Where would you suggest I put the anneal step (or steps)?
Full length size 303 cases
308 die
7mm-08 Die
6.5 Carcano (or Jap depending on which source you read) die
Full length size 303 cases
308 die
7mm-08 Die
6.5 Carcano (or Jap depending on which source you read) die
Bubba Yugga
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Midwestern Ontario
Proper annealing can be repeated indefinitely without harm.
OCD types like myself would anneal prior to each die.
But that's just me...
Terry Perkins
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Bruce County
Ok, my turn...
My brass is annealed every second firing.
1. Anneal.
2. Lube cases and bump .002".
3. Wet tumble, no pins (keeps micro carbon coating on inside of the neck for lubrication during bullet seating), and dry.
4. Trim if necessary.
5. Neck size (this removes primer) and use expander die if required (I like expander dies).
6. Chamfer inside neck (wet tumbling has a tendency to peen the neck edges).
7. Prime and load.
The good thing about jumping in the shower after taking a dump is you can save money on toilet paper.
My brass is annealed every second firing.
1. Anneal.
2. Lube cases and bump .002".
3. Wet tumble, no pins (keeps micro carbon coating on inside of the neck for lubrication during bullet seating), and dry.
4. Trim if necessary.
5. Neck size (this removes primer) and use expander die if required (I like expander dies).
6. Chamfer inside neck (wet tumbling has a tendency to peen the neck edges).
7. Prime and load.
The good thing about jumping in the shower after taking a dump is you can save money on toilet paper.
