Accuracy with new brass

snapper1

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Hi all

I want to develop a load for my 308 with brand new Lapua brass and 175 match bullets.

Question for the experts here:

Do you expect accuracy right from the start with never fired brass or do you see better accuracy with the same but fire formed brass ?

I'm new to this fantastic hobby so please forgive my ignorance.
Cheers
 
Hi all

I want to develop a load for my 308 with brand new Lapua brass and 175 match bullets.

Question for the experts here:

Do you expect accuracy right from the start with never fired brass or do you see better accuracy with the same but fire formed brass ?

I'm new to this fantastic hobby so please forgive my ignorance.
Cheers
I have to ask what your accuracy parameters are, specifically the rife you are using and if you plan on competing, for example are you shooting for 1/2 MOA ten shot groups out to 1,000 meters or at 200 meters?Most match shooters fireform their brass first to keep everything super consistent.
However I have found at times that new brass is as accurate as my fireformed brass .
Your hand loading equipment and procedures are more important than new brass.
Cat
 
I have to ask what your accuracy parameters are, specifically the rife you are using and if you plan on competing, for example are you shooting for 1/2 MOA ten shot groups out to 1,000 meters or at 200 meters?Most match shooters fireform their brass first to keep everything super consistent.
However I have found at times that new brass is as accurate as my fireformed brass .
Your hand loading equipment and procedures are more important than new brass.
Cat
Definitely not a match shooter. I have been a hunter( and a hunting guide for many decades) all my life and I like things as good as possible. Same as my fly tying...
I have a Tikka Rancher(Bush rifle) that shoots GREAT out to 300m, with just factory ammo, Federal Premium SGK 165. On a good day I get 2.5 MOA groups at 300 with that. I'd like to improve a bit...I know the rifle-scope combo shoots better than I do... Just having fun...
I might get a long shot on whitetail once in a while...Out to 350 maybe...
I bought some nice goodies for handloading. Seating with a Wilson die and arbor press.

Thanks for your reply.

Cheers
 
The easy answer is, it depends. The biggest factor is your chamber. If it closely fits new brass, accuracy will be fine. If its a bit larger along the body of the brass it may prefer fire formed brass. I always just bump the shoulders back .002 when I'm sizing fired brass and that seems to work well and is easier on brass. I used to just neck size but prefer a bit of shoulder bump now especially for hunting ammo.
 
Snappert, The 308Win case only has 3 degrees of taper from the base to the shoulder junction.

This is a good thing when loading fresh cases for work-up loads, in a rifle you're expecting good hunting accuracy from.

There was another thread on this same thing last week, maybe do a search for the comments, it was a query on Lapua cases and Sierra bullets of the same weight you're interested in.

My rifles have chambers cut with a Palma Match, purposely ground to minimum specs, so I don't bother to fireform the cases before working up a load.

If you have some previously fired cases that haven't been prepped for final loading, measure the diameter of the case neck and the length of the case from the base to the neck/shoulder junction. Do the same with your new Lapua cases.

If you have a large difference in measurements, then fireforming the new cases may be prudent. You don't want to use expensive "match" components for this. Use cast lead, with just enough powder to fire form the case.

Your "Match" bullets will likely shoot best when loaded close to the leade (beginning of the rifling lands).

My question is, why are you using "match" bullets to sight in a hunting rifle??? Are you planning on using those bullets for hunting game??? A job they may or may not work well for, and never designed to do.
 
i've shot lots of new brass versus fire formed brass with no difference in accuracy BUT i always size at least the necks and mandrel them to the correct size for proper neck tension !

NECK TENSION is the most important prep procedure of brass for accuracy !
and for continueing accuracy in BR FC classes of shooting ANNEALING is a must ! (y)
 
i've shot lots of new brass versus fire formed brass with no difference in accuracy BUT i always size at least the necks and mandrel them to the correct size for proper neck tension !

NECK TENSION is the most important prep procedure of brass for accuracy !
and for continueing accuracy in BR FC classes of shooting ANNEALING is a must ! (y)
RJ, you are correct on this point, with the rifles "you" shoot.

You're very fussy about chamber dimensions and the quality of the firearms you're shooting, so your method will work very well, 95% of the time.

However, most shooters on this site aren't nearly as "anal" about accuracy as you or I are, nor do they ever go beyond purchasing a firearm/sight platform beyond what is available off the shelf.

The vast majority have never hand loaded for their rifles, and never will.

Snappert might hand load for his rifles, but how he got into it is another question. Good on him for getting into it, no matter how.

I have a "gut feeling," because of the way he worded his query, that he has acquired some very decent components at a reasonable price, and now wants to utilize them for "hunting."

I'm going to advise him against it, especially with "match" bullets, which, no matter how much they weigh, have thinner jackets, and will either not expand at all or tumble on impact, or might just blow up after a few inches of penetration.

Our old friend Al Forslund and I did an experiment on a couple of "road kill" Deer, given to us by the Highway Department.

We shot into the already stiff carcasses at 50, 100, and 200 yds with different 30 cal bullets, 125, 135, 150, 175, and 200 grains. We use one of my 30-06 hunting rifles, so with heavier bullets, velocities were a bit faster than what would be expected from a 308Win.

The light bullets were pulled from 7.62x39, Hornady, and Randy Robinette custom match. The 135 grain, were also Robinette's.

The 150 grain bullets were FMJ Hornady, Spire Point Hornady, and Accubonds.

The 175 grain bullets were Sierra Match and Hornady 180 spbt.

The 200 grain bullets were some unkwown custom match with long ogives, hollow points, and boat tails, very base heavy, pulled cupro nickel fmj, and some Speer flat base spire points.

What happened with the fmj projectiles at all threee distances, other than the 125 grain, was the same, through and through, except any distance beyond 100 yds. The 150 and 200 fmj went through at 200 yds, barely leaving an entry or exit mark.

The hunting 150 grain bullets went through and through at 100yds, and expanded perfectly. Same at 150yds, but the Hornady SP hung up in the hide on the opposite side. At 200 they did the same thing, and both were perfectly mushroomed. The accubonds went through and through.

The 175 grain Sierra Match Kings started showing issues at 50 yds, they penetrated well about 6 inches, before tumbling and coming apart, blowing a hole out the opposite side about the size of a fist.

At 100 yds the same thing happened, but a lot of shrapnel was peppered through the carcass, and the jacket was shed in one of the lungs.

The 180 grain Hornady went through and through with an obvious exit hole.

The 200 grain fmjs went through and through at all ranges, with almost imperceptible exit wounds.

The 200 grain "match" bullets penetrated and tumbled at all ranges, without exiting and blowing up completely at 50/100yds.

The Speer fbsp bullets worked well at all ranges and penetrated through and through, other than at 200 yds, where a few of them hung up on the opposite side.

This was a good test, but only as an indicator. The animals were already stiff from rigor mortis, so provided more resistance than a live animal.

The worst perfoming bullets were the "match" grade, which was the real point of our experiment, as we would have liked to use our match rifles for some of the contract shooting were were doing, using the bullets we knew shot best out to 400 yds.
 
My dependency is mostly on the rifle, than the brass. All my custom rifles shot with superb accuracy, not-so-much with factory. However, by eliminating inaccuracies, always select the best reloading components, accompanied with Fiberglass bedding and a great trigger, that’s with a factory rifle. To directly answer you’re question, my rifles shot accurate with the first use of the brass however, with fine bullet seating and powder measurements, accuracy improves.
 
First of all thank you gentlemen for all the answers.

To make a long answer short, no I would never use a match bullet for hunting. My goal is to get the most out of my rifle-scope combo at the range, up to 300 m. At the same time, I will also work on a very good hunting load that I'm comfortable with. I could still shoot premium factory ammo but I want to hand load.

Just finished loading 50 rounds of 308 with GK 165 bullets... to test( 10x5 ea. in 0.2 grs increment, from 44.2 to 46grs).
Seated 0.020 off the lands. The same factory ammo is loaded 0.45 off the lands...I should see a difference I guess... I'll start from there and play with jump.

Like I mentionned, I guided hunting professionnally for decades.
You would not believe the stuff that I've seen...Good, and very bad...

For hunting, bullet choice and skills are a must.
Target shooting is science.

Cheers
 
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Buddy I shoot coyotes with is Fireforming 223 AI brass and gets consistent 1/2 MOA groups fire forming. Biggest key here is consistent neck tension. Maybe run them through an expander to be absolutely sure
 
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