Shortening the Trade Gun

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bfj91

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Howdy fellas.

I've got a 62 cal smoothbore trade gun (maybe marketed as fusil de chase) that I picked up for the reproduction shop outside Halifax some years ago. I know they're not the highest quality, but it works as intended.

Now, as I said, it works as intended. It throws a ball, it chucks shot. It gets to point of aim as well as one could expect. But, it's so. Darned. Heavy.

It weighs a ton, may as well be twelve feet long, and as much as I had always dreamed of making in my daily driver small game getter, it's just so unwieldily in the bush that I seldom reach for it.

Without worrying too much about historical accuracy, but still thinking about point of aim accuracy, safety, and legality, what has anybody experienced with shortening a stock and barrel on something like this?

I have access to precision tools, not planning to just jump on it with a hacksaw or anything, but am wondering about barrel harmonics, and if I'll need to replace any (barrel mounts?), etc.

Any insight is appreciated
 
bfj91 said:
Howdy fellas.

I've got a 62 cal smoothbore trade gun (maybe marketed as fusil de chase) that I picked up for the reproduction shop outside Halifax some years ago. I know they're not the highest quality, but it works as intended.

Now, as I said, it works as intended. It throws a ball, it chucks shot. It gets to point of aim as well as one could expect. But, it's so. Darned. Heavy.

It weighs a ton, may as well be twelve feet long, and as much as I had always dreamed of making in my daily driver small game getter, it's just so unwieldily in the bush that I seldom reach for it.

Without worrying too much about historical accuracy, but still thinking about point of aim accuracy, safety, and legality, what has anybody experienced with shortening a stock and barrel on something like this?

I have access to precision tools, not planning to just jump on it with a hacksaw or anything, but am wondering about barrel harmonics, and if I'll need to replace any (barrel mounts?), etc.

Any insight is appreciated
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If it is weight you are trying to mitigate, shortening might not accomplish much. The barrel and the forestock are THIN and don’t weigh much forward of the entry thimble. Of course if the main concern is it being “unwieldy”, then you can cut it down. I would cut the barrel in the lathe, smoothbore crown is nothing special (as far as I know). I have shortened a smoothbore, pretty simple.
 
Since my Centermark .62 Fusil de Chase is light as a feather, I assume the barrel on yours must have a pretty thick wall. That being the case, shortening the barrel should noticeably lighten it and change the point of balance. I don't think you have to be concerned with things like barrel harmonics with a BP smoothbore. Depending on where you cut it, you might have to install a new forward barrel lug, which is not difficult but does require careful setup when drilling for the pin. Also, you will have to relocate the upper thimble. A fairly straightforward woodworking process but, once again, careful setup when drilling for the pin. Also, the front sight would have to be relocated or replaced. Likely soldered on, so should be reusable. If you are in the Halifax area, there are a number of Centermarks within a 100 mile radius of your location. If you are able to, hook up with a member of a local club so you can see what a Fusil de Chase can be.
 
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Agree you won't be losing much weight - but you can probably mitigate that "unwieldy" feeling
Figure out where the balance point is now and where you want it to be - well balanced will feel more handy and point better.
Figure out what the stock and hardware weigh independent of the barrel - you may want to try to lose some weight there, you may find out a direct barrel replacement could fix.

But shortening it will definitely be more handy in the bush - no question. In that case, I would go for the half stock feel, ditch that (probably) metal ram rod and a bunch of extra hardware plus shortening might get you close to 1/2 - 3/4 kilo less.
A smaller butt plate would let you trim some fat off the stock ~ marginal returns on that.

Ideally, but $$$, if the barrel is anything like my India made Brown Bess barrel - you could have it profiled to an octagon to round style. big weight loss there!

At any rate a well balanced gun that fits and is comfortable will seem much more handy - it will still be a brick lugging from point A to point B - but you know - "Welcome to military reproductions" ;)
 
sean69 said:
Ideally, but $$$, if the barrel is anything like my India made Brown Bess barrel - you could have it profiled to an octagon to round style. big weight loss there!
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That is a good thought. If it is heavy, the barrel is likely too thick. Problem with profiling is that it will create gaps in the wood to barrel fit. However, it could be easily bored to a bigger bore/thinner wall. Wads can be had (or made) in any bore as can be had in round ball mold. Bottom line, shorten to make more practical in heavy cover, bore it out to make it lighter. Of course, if the barrel has a significant taper, you may run out of wall thickness near the muzzle before taking out much weight from the thick breech end.
 
Thanks guys for the input! In regards to barrel thickness, it definitely seems over built to me, also an Indian made flinter, actually a lot closer to a brown bess than a true trade gun (the stock especially).

Essentially the barrel lugs are about 1.5" muzzle side of the ramrod thimbles. My thinking was to shorten the whole works to keep the same geometry, but at the "middle" lug. This would effectively remove a little over 12 inches of stock and barrel, some furniture, and some ramrod. I would then just tap a hole for a screw in bead.

I appreciate that it may seem a bit funny to cry over weight while carrying around a bunch of extra brass tacks, but I think the word you guys have used, balance, is really more my issue, besides of course getting tangled in the willows.

There's not a huge black powder community where I now live (Yukon Territory), so I appreciate the online input
 
If that were my rifle, I would shorten the bbl to be between 20-24 inches.

It won't hurt anying, and definitely bring the balance back to a manageable point. Likely I would cut it off at the 20 inch mark.

The velocity loss will be minimal, but the sighting radius will be much shorter, which may or may not be an issue for you.

I think your biggest issue will be getting the front sight installed without making a mess.
 
Licensed to kill said:
That is a good thought. If it is heavy, the barrel is likely too thick. Problem with profiling is that it will create gaps in the wood to barrel fit.
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Yes - you would wind up plugging the barrel channel and inlet the whole barrel - also have to inset the lock a little more, but then you lose a little more weight shaving the side plates and fore end down ...
 
😲 Good lord fellas. Just how much work should one reasonably consider putting into one of those made in India replicas?? I, for one, would never consider shooting one that has had the barrel turned down or reamed to a larger caliber/gauge. No telling what the metallurgy is and what the manufacturing processes were. The OP would be much better off selling it and buying a better quality product.
 
B_noser said:
😲 Good lord fellas. Just how much work should one reasonably consider putting into one of those made in India replicas?? I, for one, would never consider shooting one that has had the barrel turned down or reamed to a larger caliber/gauge. No telling what the metallurgy is and what the manufacturing processes were. The OP would be much better off selling it and buying a better quality product.
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Well this is probably true, there's a bit of "dance with girl you came with" feeling here, after all, a bird in the hand...

If I go forward with any mods, it would just be the shortening. The other advice is good and makes total sense, but at the end of the day anything beyond what can be accomplished in a few days is going to be more trouble than it's worth.

However, on the other hand, putting work into the cheap made in India reproduction is, in my mind, a low stakes chance to try some things out. If I don't like the end result, not out a ton of money, and I haven't destroyed something beautiful.
 
A perfectly reasonable approach. I would just caution you to not do anything that might compromise safety and thinning the barrel wall thickness certainly falls in that category.
Is this one of the Indian imports that are brought in without the touchhole drilled?
 
B_noser said:
A perfectly reasonable approach. I would just caution you to not do anything that might compromise safety and thinning the barrel wall thickness certainly falls in that category.
Is this one of the Indian imports that are brought in without the touchhole drilled?
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When I got it direct from the importer the touch hole was drilled, but I was given the supplies and instructions to proof the barrel myself.
 
B_noser said:
Would be interested to hear how you were instructed to proof it.
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The instructions involved rachet strapping the barrel to a tire in a specific way, load it with double the normal charge and a tight round ball, and then use a length of cannon fuse in the touch hole for ignition.

I didn't go for the tire option, I used something different, but measuring the barrel before and after with a caliper it seemed to hold up no problem.

I've since shot it plenty, although with much lighter loads of course
 
I bought one of those "Heritage Arms made in India " grade Chiefs pattern Trade Guns. The touch hole wasn't drilled and the build quality was absolutely atrocious. Ironically, I've read that some of the earlier made in Birmingham Trade Guns we're infamous for having terrible build quality as well. So maybe the crude East Indian workmanship is an asset in this case haha.

The barrel had no proofing marks, only a company name. There was a center punch dot on the frizzen implying someone at least half a$$ tested it for hardness.

The biggest kicker for me was that the last 12" of the 36" barrel was bent down significantly, to the point we're it would be difficult to hit anything using the front sight post.

I was new to East Indian grade muskets and all of these short comings sketched me out. I decided NOT to drill the the touch hole and fire it. Instead I butchered it into an airsoft gun project. This involved removing the breech plug, milling away half the breech area and chopping the bent portion of the barrel off. Making the barrel length around 28". Shes essentially a "Canoe Gun" at this point.

Chopping off 8" made the gun significantly more nimble, and less front heavy. Its easier to reload when crouched behind cover. Butchering the gun allowed me to throughly examine the quality of the barrel and I'd have to say it was certainly well built metallurgically. Wouldn't hesitate to fire another one if it replicated that.
 
Many original 42" Trade Guns were shortened by their owners for any number of reasons such as barrel damage or the need for some iron to make metal tools, etc. The "Canoe Gun" version was typically a 36" or 32" barrel to be handy in a boat or on horseback. Apparently some were even shortened to include only the octagon section or a bit longer for easy and quick loading when running bison on horseback. Chop your barrel then make up a good story... lol
 
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