I don't think that cost comes into the equation when we are talking about protection.
Bear Protection Shotgun
- Thread starter RedTeam98
- Start date
They are cheap, powerful close range tools.
There's a reason why young geologists start their careers with pump action shotguns.
Something I found useful in gaining competence with a 12guage pump was filling the 4l milk jugs with water and placing one every 5 yards from about 25 yards on in. Then using one shot only for each jug, shoot at the furthest and then each one on in as fast as you can. See how many you hit The first few times I tried this some of the milk jugs survived due to me missing or jacking the action inconsistently. After a while all of the milk jugs died. Really gets your confidence and consistency up.
All depends on what you're using. If you're reaching for the Winchester SuperX deer slugs than yeah, penetration will be poor. Load it with a brenneke or TruBall deep penetrator and you're looking at straight line penetration pushing 30", which is better than the majority of rifle loads.
A shotgun slug that has better penetration that the majority of rifle loads?
Please explain?
R.
Here's the data from a bullet test rifle shooter mag did with 300wm at 50yds.
https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/ballistics-test-best-300-win-mag-loads-market/83865
The video I shared of the Federal TruBall deep penetrator test went 32.5".
What is more, 32.5, or 27.5?
Hard slugs have little to no expansion, meaning all the energy goes to penetrating. Most rifle bullets - even the really stout stuff like TSX and Swift Aframes - are losing energy to expansion.
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Certainly a lot less cleaning when 'in the field'. I'd prefer a short Semi for 5-chances to keep walking
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At the time I worked Mining & Exploration all bear guards had a pump action. I guess they were all wrong.
Have you done the "rolling tire shoot" ?
See, it's different fantasising about something or actually do it or be on duty for it...
DaveMachine
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- That one place with a cowboy complex
I hate to be the one to break it to you, but most of the time your duty gear isn't chosen because it's the bestAt the time I worked Mining & Exploration all bear guards had a pump action. I guess they were all wrong.
Have you done the "rolling tire shoot" ?
See, it's different fantasising about something or actually do it or be on duty for it...
Which is further away? 10 yards or 50?
If this is the data that folks are using to tout a shotgun over a rifle for these purposes, they should definitely look a lot closer.
A shotgun slug, with less energy, and larger surface area simply will not out penetrate a rifle bullet with more energy and less surface area.
Your statement about expansion is simply wrong.
Shotguns for bear protection are a myth.
R.
Do you realize that at 10yds those rifle bullets will penetrate less not more?... Faster impact velocity, larger expanded diameter, less penetration.
If you want better penetration you need to hit it slower so it expands less. Shoot that same 180tsx from a 30-30 and you'll probably get more than 32" of penetration.
It even out-penetrated the Brenneke slug!
As I've said earlier, the Challenger 1 1/8 magnum slugs handily beat the truball deep penetrator, but at the cost of a lot more blast and recoil.
For stopping ar ranges under 25 yards, 12 ga slugs, even Forsters, with proper placement work fine.
Tha advantage with a rifle is it's increased range so if you have to follow and finish a wounded animal, if a longer range, safer shot is possible, the rifle will allow you to take it with more confidence, safety and less suffering for the animal.
Some guys are amazing with slugs in bead sighted shotguns at 75 yards. I'm not one of them.
Tha advantage with a rifle is it's increased range so if you have to follow and finish a wounded animal, if a longer range, safer shot is possible, the rifle will allow you to take it with more confidence, safety and less suffering for the animal.
Some guys are amazing with slugs in bead sighted shotguns at 75 yards. I'm not one of them.
Yeah! They're also pretty cheap and pretty available. I stocked up about 2 years ago for like $8/box of 5, they're still available for under $2/shot if you shop around, and a quick Google and a few clicks found me two places with em in stock.
Unfortunately, that just isn’t reality.
Using an appropriate bullet, the rifle will outperform the slug every single time.
That is why using shotguns for bear defence is a myth.
R.
Except it still won’t out penetrate a rifle.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
R.
What specifically isn't a reality? That lower velocity not higher gets more penetration?
Here's that exact same test at 400yds:
Note how the penetration is up, expansion is down, and velocity is in the ballpark of 30-30.
Tell me, what bullet and cartridge combo will you use to get at least 32" of penetration reliably?
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You are using an emotionally driven apples to pears argument, and showing ridiculous data to try and make it something it can’t simply be.
Any solid bullet.. out of pretty much any centre fire rifle, shot at the same distance will out penetrate a shotgun slug. Every. Single. Time.
It’s math and physics. Reality.
If slugs were so great, then why aren’t they the go to for renowned bear, big and dangerous game hunters around the world? They aren’t. Because they don’t work.
R.
