Feasibility of repurposed powder

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xBen15x

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Came into some 308 win 180g ammo, didn’t have a need for it, and am to remote to make selling scary, dangerous explosives (according to shipping companies) feasible.

I repurposed the brass for the 243, sold the bullets, and kept the powder.

Average of 40 rounds was 43.7g (per my Fx-123 balance) of a ball powder.

Ammo shot 2565 fps from a friends 24” 308 rifle… and no, he was not interested in buying it.

Is using published load data and drawing correlations to burn rate charts a reasonably effective way to determine if its safe (and how much to use) of the powder for the 243 rifle? Not concerned with precision, temp stability, etc… its just for an initial firing to bang out some minor “lube dents” out of the cases, and have some fun with some sub-25m beaver hunting.

Looking at reloading data, the same amount of IMR 4064, Varget, W748, and RL15 should net the same velocity for the bullet weight/barrel length. On the burn chart, IMR 4064 is 106, Varget is 113, W748 is 114, and RL-15 is 110.

While im aware that generally this is not advised… neither is pistol powder and cream of wheat..but its frequently done without issue. Having over half a lb of this unknown powder is enough to make it worth looking into repurposing in my opinion.

I have a wide array of 243 bullet weights, and a cursory look at load data indicates somewhere around an 80g bullet may be appropriate with a roughly 35g of powder (an estimated low charge weight).

Thoughts?
 
By your estimate you have enough powder to load up approximately 100 rounds of .243. Personally I wouldn't play around with an unknown powder in one of my rifles. I don't think the savings of not buying an equal amount of a known powder you can use reliably is worth risking yourself and a several hundred dollar rifle if things go badly.
 
If it's going to be shot in a bolt gun you are good to go. If it's a pump gun like a Remington 760 or 740 reduce a bit more to be safe to get a baseline for pressure, and whether the case is sealing enough when fired( blackened, sooty cases).
 
Ive done it before. If you can make an educated guess on what the powder is from other manuals you can usually determine what it is or what its similar to and start with lower charge weights. You probably wont blow yourself up. 100 rounds doesn't seem like a lot but that's quite a bit of trigger time and powder isn't exactly inexpensive anymore. Proceed with caution.
 
I appreciate all the input. It would sure be easier to navigate if it was a really small or very massive amount of powder!

Does anyone have any insight into aspects or this that I may be overlooking, beyond powder weight and burn rate?
 
My last thoughts on the matter

If someone gave the powder to you in a baggie with no background,fertilize your garden. But seriously it came from a 308 shell. Live a little. Use your head and reason it out with the available info.
 
Personally, I wouldn’t do it for $50 worth of powder…unless there was a zombie apocalypse and I was running low on ammo.

I think there is a small risk that it will cause any serious problems…but what is your gun worth?

Here is my math:
Say my gun is worth $500 and I estimate a 10% chance it will cause a problem with the gun.
$500 x 10% =$50 (the same value of the powder).
Therefore if your gun is worth more or there is a higher risk…it’s not worth it.
 
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5 - 10 # of one powder from 1 lot would be worth it, although perhaps not in a .243; 1/2 # not really.

You've salvaged & necked down the brass [you've presumably checked that the neck thickness is satisfactory?] & you've sold the bullets. Use those funds to buy some powder.

43.7 grs. of W748 is below the minimum for a 180 grain bullet load in a .308 Winchester load, at least according to Winchester loading manuals, although we can presume that whatever powder it is, it is a non-canister powder. Further, no Winchester manual, or, for that matter, any other that I have, shows W748 as being suitable in .243 Winchester. It's too fast for that expansion ratio.
 
what risk? theres 1/2 dozen powders that cross over between 243 and 308
I'd be picking a starting load for any one powder, you know that will be enough to get out through the barrel, juat make sure it has enough fill volume.
3 rnds will say if it will hit a plate at 100, test a speed if you can to judge if more is safe or needed
Loading a 100 plinking loads is easy, just don't expect much except the exercise

edit - check out Win 760 also spherical, cuz 748 is less suitable for 308
 
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TJCote said:
Here is my math:
Say my gun is worth $500 and I estimate a 10% chance it will cause a problem with the gun.
$500 x 10% =$50 (the same value of the powder).
Therefore if your gun is worth more or there is a higher risk…it’s not worth it.
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Interesting way to look at it. My estimate would need to be MUCH lower than 10%, who cares about the gun Im concerned about my fingers and face.


That said I have no issues doing what OP is thinking about. OP knows what ballpark this powder is in, which IMO is the most important factor. If he's reloading 243win with it I would get a light bullet, start low, and chronograph my results.
 
Suther said:
Interesting way to look at it. My estimate would need to be MUCH lower than 10%, who cares about the gun Im concerned about my fingers and face.
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Agreed. However, I wasn’t even considering that the gun would catastrophically fail and cause an injury…as I gave that pretty much a zero probability. My worse case and most likely scenario was a high pressure round resulting in a damaged bolt, bolt handle (from tapping the action open afterwards); or broken extractor; or a trip to the gunsmith and possibly rendering the gun useless…which could easily put it in the $500 range…if that’s is the value of the gun.

The 10% was just a number. Whether it’s 5% or 20% it doesn’t matter much. There will always be some risk when using an unknown powder. I don’t think the op said if these were factory loads so making assumptions of what the actual powder might be is impossible, unless you could visually compare it to a know powder. This ammo could be somebody’s old reloads for all we know. There is a reason they tell you never to use unknown components. It’s generally very good advise.

Saving $50 is a small benefit, when the price on the other side of the equation could be much larger.
 
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OP, back in the day when "surplus" powders were still widely available and cheap, this was a common issue.

Here's the best suggestion I can give you for utilizing that powder in your 243 Win.

First thing to take into account is how much powder there is, and whether working up loads for it is worthwhile.

If it's only enough for 100 rounds or less, I would toss it.

The thing about "surplus" powder from commercial loaders is that it's almost always a "proprietary" powder, and made up in batches for a specific lot, which is why you can run into some very different results with off the shelf commercially loaded ammunition.

Of the powders you listed, pick the fastest powder there and look it up in your manual, for the 308Win cartridge, with the bullet weight that was in the cases.

Use the starting loads suggested in the manual, which are given using "cannister grade" powders that are commonly available to reloaders.

You just don't know how fast that powder burns, because proprietary powders are made up as per very specific parameters, as cheaply as possible for specific orders.

Cannister grade powders will safely cover a wide range of applications, but proprietary powders will be manufactured to utilize a very narrow range.

If you don't have a significant quantity of this powder, throw it away, because it's not worth working up a load for.

Let me give you an example.

When Tom Higginson was still around, I used to help develop loads, which he later had tested for pressure by a lab. The powders he sent me were almost always what was left of a batch used by commercial loaders for a specific run.

One of the most useful, for my needs, was a batch given H414SL10 designation. It was a very slow lot of H414 or W760, about 10% slower.

People using it either used the info from Higginson's, or used the loads for W760 or H414 from the manuals. They were happy with the great consistent burn rate and accuracy, but unhappy with the 100-200 fps slower velocities than the manuals listed.

This powder was one of the first attempts at temperature stable types in cartridges with 308Win or larger cases, using heavier bullets 180 grains or more, 30 caliber.

It worked very well with heavier bullets, but was lackluster with bullets in the 150 grain range.

This is what you're up against. If your bullet/powder/primer supply is limited, at today's prices, you need to consider what you're attempting.

I found it often took several hundred rounds to establish appx burn rate and which cartridges the powder was useful for.

I was lucky that Tom usually included specs of the cartridges the powder was used for.
 
xBen15x said:
Does anyone have any insight into aspects or this that I may be overlooking, beyond powder weight and burn rate?
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What do you know about the original ammo? You never stated if it was factory, mil surplus or somebody’s old handloads.

Old handloads would compound the risk as you wouldn’t know if it was appropriate powder for .308 180gr in the first place.
 
bearhunter said:
First thing to take into account is how much powder there is, and whether working up loads for it is worthwhile.

If it's only enough for 100 rounds or less, I would toss it.
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This is a really good point. Some people go through quite a few components by the time they actually get to a load they like. If the OP is happy to figure out something thats safe for plinking it can be done without using much, but if OP is looking for more than something that goes bang and slaps a gong at 200yds then it might not be worth the effort.
 
Suther said:
This is a really good point. Some people go through quite a few components by the time they actually get to a load they like. If the OP is happy to figure out something thats safe for plinking it can be done without using much, but if OP is looking for more than something that goes bang and slaps a gong at 200yds then it might not be worth the effort.
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I've never been much of a "plinker" other than with handguns and 22rf chambered firearms.

Just didn't see much point when factoring in cost, and especially felt recoil.

Like the SKS users I see at our local range, blasting away ammo, just to feel the recoil and hear the bang, while shooting up the overhead berms and target frames.

Each to his own. Not dissing plinking at all, but with CF rounds, especially in higher end firearms, it's just not worth it to me.
 
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