What Drives .22LR Accuracy?

A tuner changes the oscillation pattern so that the shooter can optimize the launch angle at bullet exit to minimize dispersion.

Your statement could also mislead new guys into thinking that a tuner is going to fix their issues. New guys need to shoot more and stop buying the next magic bullet.
I hear where you are coming from but I think it is a stretch. Nevertheless you have warned them of the pitfalls.

We just happen to live at a time when so many people are convinced they are just one purchase away from happiness and success. You know yourself how hard you have worked to develop your skills and achieve the success that you have had. Most don't have the discipline or capacity for self reflection and honesty. (Refer to group measurements here.) Anyone who is using or considering a tuner is encouraged to familiarize themselves with the original sources.
 
A tuner changes the oscillation pattern so that the shooter can optimize the launch angle at bullet exit to minimize dispersion.


I hear where you are coming from but I think it is a stretch. Nevertheless you have warned them of the pitfalls.

We just happen to live at a time when so many people are convinced they are just one purchase away from happiness and success. You know yourself how hard you have worked to develop your skills and achieve the success that you have had. Most don't have the discipline or capacity for self reflection and honesty. (Refer to group measurements here.) Anyone who is using or considering a tuner is encouraged to familiarize themselves with the original sources.
Lack of patience and the irrational need for instant gratification.

It started with the Ruger 10/22 guys would buy them and within two months, the only bits left of the original rifle left might be the action, maybe the bolt. Most could not even tell you how it shot before.

The same has started with the 455, and is alive and well with the 457, I know a couple rifles that are on their 3rd barrel in 4-6 months.

Changing a bunch of stuff all at once is very bad from an R&D stand point. You don't know if just one or all of the changes made improvements or made the situation worse.
 
Both practice and absence of wind help the shooter reduce or eliminate sources of error.

Neither practice nor absence of wind adequately explain why what's seen on the target has happened -- even when there is no shooter error or wind involvement.

This thread is about explaining why you see what you see downrange.
 
Except for all those stages I've shot offhand...

Theres a big carry over to the implements as well. Shooting off a bipod with a rear bag indoors at a 25y range with a tuner has 0 carry over to PRS matches.

Let me reiterate this because you guys are slow out east.

Crps and orps is not real prs. Period.

Nobody shoots offhand in prs.
 
Let me reiterate this because you guys are slow out east.

Crps and orps is not real prs. Period.

Nobody shoots offhand in prs.
Your first post said is was PRS. If you are going to play all superior and arrogant, maybe try to live up to your own elevated benchmarks.

Friendly and helpful is what we shoot for here. Please try to live up to that standard. I have little respect for people like you that hide behind a keyboard to say stuff they would never dare to, face to face..
 
Your first post said is was PRS. If you are going to play all superior and arrogant, maybe try to live up to your own elevated benchmarks.

Friendly and helpful is what we shoot for here. Please try to live up to that standard. I have little respect for people like you that hide behind a keyboard to say stuff they would never dare to, face to face..
Ah yes, after going back and looking at my original post, it seems autocorrect got me.


I guess saying things that are true aren’t welcome here either, just because someone has shot 3 crps matches that had offhand doesn’t mean it’s the standard for the sport.

Saying that shooting offhand (as they do in the prs) is factually incorrect.
 
Ah yes, after going back and looking at my original post, it seems autocorrect got me.


I guess saying things that are true aren’t welcome here either, just because someone has shot 3 crps matches that had offhand doesn’t mean it’s the standard for the sport.

Saying that shooting offhand (as they do in the prs) is factually incorrect.
Saying what is true is always welcome!!! We are all here to learn. Just leave out the snark and condescending bits.
 
This thread aims to explain both.
Did you just copy or maybe paraphrase this all from a book? It reads like you just finished a book and now figure you know all about rifle accuracy. :rolleyes: My take is that you have an inch worth of knowledge or understanding of the topic that you are spreading a mile long.


Each Shot Has Two Phases: Launch and Flight

A helpful way to picture rimfire accuracy is to separate two phases.

The first is the launch phase: everything that determines the bullet’s direction and initial condition at the instant it leaves the barrel.

The second is the flight phase: everything that happens after the bullet is in free air.
No, each shot has three phases. The interior ballistics, of what happens to the bullet in the bore, the let off or uncorking as the bullet exists the crown and free flight. All three of those are important along with the transitions from each phase to the next.


Launch angle is a key driver of trajectory and where the point of impact will be.
No necessarily. When the bullet exists the crown, a number of important things occur, that can affect the trajectory. And then let's not overlook the hundreds of yards of atmosphere the bullet must cross before reaching the target. That atmosphere is not homogenous nor constant.


all of the above and...
head spacing is what I look for, the rim depth sets the head space on a .22

why is a .357mag more accurate than a 9mm? head space is repeatable better with the .357mag
That is complete baloney. First off headspace has little to do with accuracy. Second, what makes you think that headspacing off the rim is any more consistent than headspacing off the case mouth? Both are subject to variations in case length.

I suspect you are conflating headspace with the loaded length of the bullet and its relation to the lands ... which is not the headspace. Maybe look up what headspace actually is?


Headspace is too often too over-rated as an explanation for what happens on target. In other words, it's not nearly as important to results as often thought. Many "high end" rifles routinely have headspace exceeding 0.043" -- the ammo and firearms industry standard.

For what it's worth, none of my rifles have headspace that's not at least 0.044". It's just not the big deal that it's sometimes made out to be.

No one reducing headspace by 0.001" to 0.002" will see a repeatable and reliable improvement in results. With a good barrel, it's always on the ammo.
For someone who has posted a very long winded explanation of accuracy, you have NO CLUE what headspace is or what it means or how it may or may not affect accuracy. :rolleyes: The SAAMI headspace range for any cartridge is 0.004". If you have a rifle with ca. .044" of headspace, the thing would pull the case heads off with every shot. 🤷‍♂️

You are clearly describing the loaded length of the cartridge and the distance from the bullet ogive to the lands. That IS NOT the headspace. Headspace is the relationship between the chamber and the case, and it does not involve the bullet at all.

Yes, reducing the bullet jump to the lands does in fact increase accuracy because it ensures the bullet engraves into the lands straight to the bore. The longer the jump distance, the more chance there is for the bullet to enter the lands slightly cockeyed, which then degrades accuracy.

Nobody is suggesting that changing the distance to the lands by a couple of thou will make any difference but bringing the bullet 40 thou closer certainly will.


No. There's nothing to be gained by sorting .22LR match ammo by rim thickness.
YES there friggen is. The rim thickness greatly affects the firing pin hit and thus the ignition process of the primer and subsequently the powder. The reason we have Match or Benchrest grade primers is to ensure consistent primer and powder ignition. Sorting rimfire rounds by rim thickness is essentially the same thing as using Match grade primers.


Sorting by weight is like sorting by rim thickness. Both are a waste of time. There are anecdotal reports of guys who sorted by one means or another but they are isolated reports, not evidence that's reliable.

There is no body of reliable testing evidence to support sorting by any means, whether by rim thickness, weight, concentricity (such as the once-available Neilson Brothers-related products) or OAL (base-to-ogive). In other words, there's no proof that they work
Who are you to make these statements? What expertise do you have in the topic or industry? You are telling us all how it is, without telling us your credentials to make such statements. :rolleyes:
 
Did you just copy or maybe paraphrase this all from a book? It reads like you just finished a book and now figure you know all about rifle accuracy. :rolleyes: My take is that you have an inch worth of knowledge or understanding of the topic that you are spreading a mile long.



No, each shot has three phases. The interior ballistics, of what happens to the bullet in the bore, the let off or uncorking as the bullet exists the crown and free flight. All three of those are important along with the transitions from each phase to the next.



No necessarily. When the bullet exists the crown, a number of important things occur, that can affect the trajectory. And then let's not overlook the hundreds of yards of atmosphere the bullet must cross before reaching the target. That atmosphere is not homogenous nor constant.



That is complete baloney. First off headspace has little to do with accuracy. Second, what makes you think that headspacing off the rim is any more consistent than headspacing off the case mouth? Both are subject to variations in case length.

I suspect you are conflating headspace with the loaded length of the bullet and its relation to the lands ... which is not the headspace. Maybe look up what headspace actually is?



For someone who has posted a very long winded explanation of accuracy, you have NO CLUE what headspace is or what it means or how it may or may not affect accuracy. :rolleyes: The SAAMI headspace range for any cartridge is 0.004". If you have a rifle with ca. .044" of headspace, the thing would pull the case heads off with every shot. 🤷‍♂️

You are clearly describing the loaded length of the cartridge and the distance from the bullet ogive to the lands. That IS NOT the headspace. Headspace is the relationship between the chamber and the case, and it does not involve the bullet at all.

Yes, reducing the bullet jump to the lands does in fact increase accuracy because it ensures the bullet engraves into the lands straight to the bore. The longer the jump distance, the more chance there is for the bullet to enter the lands slightly cockeyed, which then degrades accuracy.

Nobody is suggesting that changing the distance to the lands by a couple of thou will make any difference but bringing the bullet 40 thou closer certainly will.



YES there friggen is. The rim thickness greatly affects the firing pin hit and thus the ignition process of the primer and subsequently the powder. The reason we have Match or Benchrest grade primers is to ensure consistent primer and powder ignition. Sorting rimfire rounds by rim thickness is essentially the same thing as using Match grade primers.



Who are you to make these statements? What expertise do you have in the topic or industry? You are telling us all how it is, without telling us your credentials to make such statements. :rolleyes:
"That is complete baloney."? What is the caliber you would pick for a centerfire competition? ISSF? .32 long/.22 long is my pick, walther GSP
 
For someone who has posted a very long winded explanation of accuracy, you have NO CLUE what headspace is or what it means or how it may or may not affect accuracy. :rolleyes: The SAAMI headspace range for any cartridge is 0.004". If you have a rifle with ca. .044" of headspace, the thing would pull the case heads off with every shot. 🤷‍♂️

:rolleyes:
In firearms, SAAMI headspace refers to the exact, allowable dimensional specifications for a gun's chamber. Defined by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI), it is the precise distance from the closed breech face (bolt) to the specific point in the chamber where the cartridge stops its forward movement.

The SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute) headspace specification for the .22 LR is 0.043 inches to 0.051 inches

First is excerpt from search ... what is saami headspace
Second from .... what is saami 22lr headspace.

I'm having difficulty reconciling your unnecessarily rude and authoritative post with the facts. Just correcting the record for any new guys trying to follow ... I Don't Care About You.:rolleyes:
 
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In reading through a page and a half of information and a page and a half of bickering/posturing it would appear from many of the comments that many rimfire shooters are unaware of how the .22 bullet changes shape during firing. The .22 bullet that leaves the barrel looks drastically different than the heeled bullet that sits in the cartridge case. It no longer has a heel as the heel has been pushed forward and expanded to the same size or diameter as the main bullet body. If this expansion has occurred properly there will be continuous rifling engraving along the entire length of the bullet and the expanded heel portion of the bullet as it is now essentially one solid and uniform piece of lead, albeit with a slightly hollow base. In essence the .22 bullet now resembles a centerfire pistol bullet (such as 9mm) as it flies through the air. The consistency of this drastic change in the shape of the bullet during firing will have a major influence on the accuracy of the bullet. The bullet heel design, lead hardness and bullet crimp pressure as well as many other variables in the ammunition and rifle equipment will all factor into this as well.
 
In reading through a page and a half of information and a page and a half of bickering/posturing it would appear from many of the comments that many rimfire shooters are unaware of how the .22 bullet changes shape during firing. The .22 bullet that leaves the barrel looks drastically different than the heeled bullet that sits in the cartridge case. It no longer has a heel as the heel has been pushed forward and expanded to the same size or diameter as the main bullet body. If this expansion has occurred properly there will be continuous rifling engraving along the entire length of the bullet and the expanded heel portion of the bullet as it is now essentially one solid and uniform piece of lead, albeit with a slightly hollow base. In essence the .22 bullet now resembles a centerfire pistol bullet (such as 9mm) as it flies through the air. The consistency of this drastic change in the shape of the bullet during firing will have a major influence on the accuracy of the bullet. The bullet heel design, lead hardness and bullet crimp pressure as well as many other variables in the ammunition and rifle equipment will all factor into this as well.
do you suppose the same is for copper plated bullets as well as the lead?
 
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